Friend has completely changed

[Annapops1]

Good evening all, spent a while deciding on whether or not to post this on here but after several sleepless nights I'd really appreciate some advice.

Been friends with 'sarah' for 30 years, very close almost like sisters. Godmother to each others children and always the first person to call in a crisis or with a funny story etc.

We've been chatting about faith / religion and had decided that once lockdown was over we would quite like to go to a modern church and see what it was all about. We checked it out on zoom and all looked great, rock band on stage and young speakers etc. I'm not particularly religious but after loosing my mum I'd like to think that she is still "with us" in some way.

Anyways...my friend called me to say that she'd got chatting to a school mum who goes to the said church and that they'd arranged a walk. All fine. Following the walk friend calls to tell me how amazing mum friend is and that she'd love me to meet her etc. Friend goes on another walk with mum friend, calls me later to say how this mum friend has told her about when she met God and how Harry Potter is evil and encourages children to practice witchcraft.

Fast forward and friend and mum friend have met several more times...each time I get a phone call tell me things along the lines of she has now given her body to Jesus, how she's prayed for me to be filled with God's blood, that she's taken phones off her children as they encourage unsavoury activities etc etc.

This week being half term we met up with our children for a 3 hour walk...I kid you not I got "God" the whole time. Now going back to above, I'm not the anti-christ as I was happy to explore the new church etc but this is on another level. We got to the the highest point and she raised her hands and shouted how she loves Jesus. I was then told that if I didn't accept Jesus into my heart then I'd loose my place in heaven. I tried to change the subject but to no avail.

I literally couldn't wait to get home. This was now 4 days ago and I just don't know what to think. I've not heard from her since and I feel like I've completely lost my friend. She's unrecognisable...the things she's was coming out with to me makes me think she's been practically brainwashed.

Please tell me if you think I am overreacting? If you got this far, well done

Do you know what the church is called, op? It might help get a clue if it is a cult or not.

@RuledbyASD speaking in tongues is praying in a foreign language that isn't an earthly language, often believed to be the language of angels. The best known reference is 1 Corinthians 13 "though I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, if I have not love, I am nothing". (The whole passage is often read at weddings) Sometimes someone will speak in tongues then someone else will "interpret" what they are saying, usually a prophecy or a blessing. It can just sound like someone is praying in a language you don't know or there can be dramatic movements and sort of possession (though they don't use that term).

It definitely is radicalisation of a sort but not to PREVENT extremes where the outcome can be fatal for followers or victims.

@Love51

Do you know what the church is called, op? It might help get a clue if it is a cult or not.

@RuledbyASD speaking in tongues is praying in a foreign language that isn't an earthly language, often believed to be the language of angels. The best known reference is 1 Corinthians 13 "though I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, if I have not love, I am nothing". (The whole passage is often read at weddings) Sometimes someone will speak in tongues then someone else will "interpret" what they are saying, usually a prophecy or a blessing. It can just sound like someone is praying in a language you don't know or there can be dramatic movements and sort of possession (though they don't use that term).

And there's the competitive being struck down by the Spirit. From observing it at a service once (there for a dedication, didn't realise we'd be stuck there for four hours), that means if the person speaking in tongues is getting a bit too much attention, another woman hurls herself onto the floor - if the attention on her wanes a little, you see her open an eye to check and, if it's not going her way, she then starts shaking herself into the aisle so more people can see.

Makes me think of the descriptions of the girls in Salem, to be honest.

@RuledbyASD

Please update us on what she replies

I will do, thank you ❤️

It is possible that she's bipolar. I'm bipolar and go from being incredibly boringly normal to full-blown psychosis in a few weeks. I have never been to church and yet quite often my psychosis around God and Jesus. Keep an eye on her

@ClarkeGriffin

She's not mentally unwell, she's been brainwashed. At best she's gullible.

Be there for her op, especially when she comes back down.

Oh I will be...I love her like a sister hence why I feel so upset and worried x

This is interesting, I always considered myself a non-believer but always sympathetic to other peoples beliefs (i purposely didn’t get married in a church or had my children christened) when my kids were babies my local church was hard to avoid, you’d go there to get your baby weighed and there’d be tea and cake and nursery rhymes, then toddler group and pre-school and before I knew it I was going to the family service on Sundays. The church family are really supportive but you do get sucked in very quickly; I found myself leading the children's activies on Sundays, helping at the youth club and then I decided to get baptised. Then I got confirmed. It was when I started going to a weekly prayer group that I realised i was in it for the wrong reasons and began to pull away. I still helped occasionally with community stuff (our church does a lot for the local community and they welcome everyone regardless of faith). Lockdown has made me completely cut ties and I feel better for it. It’s true that Harry Potty and Halloween are frowned upon (i never went down this road). I think i was just experimenting and got a bit carried away but what worries me is that if someone is feeling vulnerable or a bit lost the church can use this to to draw them into something that isn’t right for them. If you can try and remain friends and in touch, hopefully she’ll calm down and find a way to keep her enthusiasm for her new-found faith and your friendship and if it all does come crashing down she’ll need you!

My sister is like this. Always strong minded as a child/teen and now has gone from being a rebel, to a missionaries in another country with her numerous children and husband. It's been 16 years now and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. Their children are not allowed books, tv, toys-anything other than the bible and musical instruments. For those who are thinking it might end soon, it isn't always the case. Her views are worrying and lets not get into vaccinations of any kind!
I am a Christian and we have very different views on life. Be there for your friend, be firm and loving but say from the beginning that you will find your own path in your faith and repeat that every time she tries to persuade you to go along with her ideas.

She's just born again. Totally normal behavior here in thee States, particularly in Black churches. I wouldn't worry. She'll either mellow out or stay in this mode permanently depending on her nature and life circumstances. I am an atheist but many religious people I know speak in tongues, think yoga and HP are evil and get permission from their pastor on everything.

I was just about to go to bed, but felt compelled to reply to this.

I was in a very similar situation, so I hope I can offer some firsthand experience.

I converted to Evangelical Christianity at age 21 after being brought up in a non-religious household. I went along to a Baptist church and listened to the ideas of how Jesus could improve my life. It seemed to work for my friend so I was sold.

Like your friend and many new converts, I became completely wrapped up in it at first. Just like with any new relationship, hobby, project. I lived and breathed Jesus, tried to preach to family and friends, basically lived at church and (probably like your friend) surrounded myself with 'mentors' from church who encouraged this kind of behaviour and thinking.

The intensity gradually faded and I expect it will be the same for your friend. My thoughts are that if she is normally a fairly independent minded person with non-Christian friends, she will gradually question things more and have experiences in life that will lead her to question her faith and ask difficult questions. It will be hard- my own journey out of this brand of Christianity has taken ten years and there are still times when I am drawn back out of fear of hell/ guilt.

I think that at the moment, just let her know you're there for her but hold different views- keep up with the chatty texts. If you try and talk her out of it, she'll probably be more resistant, but as you suggested, you could raise it with other family members if you're really concerned. I'm not sure how much that would help though, she really needs to see it for herself and I hope she will in time. I wish you good luck.

I come at this in the nicest possible way.

Finding your faith is something that is unexplainable. It is a belief that can’t be proved (nor should it have to be). It brings you contentment and peace. That is what it brings to me as a Christian.

If your friend feels peace, contentment and happy, leave her to feel those things and continue on her journey with the Christian faith.

Christianity is the most persecuted religions (as is apparent from the answers on this thread). It is important to remember that christians aren’t always “good” and non Christians aren’t always “bad”. However, people who find God, once they find Him, genuinely want to share their love and relationship with Him, with others. The passion can be strange and different to others.

However, the very quick change of belief is questionable. Contemporary churches don’t ban Harry Potter, nor do they persuade believers to behave in the way the friend is behaving. I struggle with the ‘establishment’ and my feminist views clashing with Christianity a lot (which causes no end of arguments amongst family and friends) however, I always come back to God and my relationship with him.

Her passion for God (from a Christian perspective) is lovely to hear but I can honestly see how it is for you. It looks crazy and mad.

I’m coming at this from a different perspective but I would challenge her beliefs in your response. As a true Christian she should not be judging, nor should she be making huge changes that impact her family life without their acceptance of her faith. Ask her how her husband feels about her faith. Question her on her understanding of what Jesus says about judgement in the Bible.

I’m sorry you feel how you feel.

I grew up in this kind of church. They are batshit crazy and I've been traumatised by it, still impacts on me fifty years later.
sounds like Your friend might be hooked, It's her kids you need to worry about. Churches that target vulnerable people and children also attract predatory men. A lot can happen under the guise of 'god's work' and 'spiritual warfare' , all kinds of abuse, including financial abuse: giving ten percent of your income or more every month is encouraged, 'you will receive your investment back 'tenfold' ' is a popular refrain, as well as banging on about the 'widow's mite', essentially making the point that anyone is able to donate money even if they have none to give..
people who are nuts or dangerous can be given a lot of power and influence over the new starters as long as they say the right thing and pray the right way... It's easy to fake being a true Christian, look at all those billionaire charlatan preachers in America.
worth trying to keep an open dialogue with her offspring and anyone else who is close to their family

She has been radicalised. Call 101 and ask for Prevent. She has really been brainwashed and no true Christian (or any faith) would want her to be affected this way.

Some of this sounds weird... blood found in a rock? but it may also be that this new experience of faith has kind of overwhelmed her, (similar to a new relationship, or love affair) all she is thinking or talking about at the moment.
This does not mean that your relationship with her will stop, it may be different, just like all our relationships change and grow as we do but if you are able to say to her how you feel about what she has been saying I hope she can re-assure you that your relationship is still important to her and that you have the right to choose your own path in life. If she does not want you as part of her life unless you choose her faith that is more of a warning sign.

I've just read movehouse 's response and realised you said it much better!

Been there, got the t shift. Glad it’s over. The church was a very manipulative experience for me. I don’t believe my old church took any direction from god, lots of unkind judgmental leaders

I took the reference to SM church to mean the church the poster's step mother belongs to. 🤔

Did your friend mention if her DH was onboard with all this stuff?

@Annapops1

I just feel so sad. I can't believe all this has happened in the space of 3 weeks. This woman has filled her head full of all kinds and I fear that from reading some of your replies it'll only get a lot worse. I will drop her the usual chatty text messages and see what happens. I really do appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. I've just felt so lost without her.

Just a thought It might not have happened in 3 weeks

I have seen this a few times - luckily not with close friends.

She may have been into this church for some time before and not told you. You say you both chatted about it and then looked on Zoom. Did she find the church or did you? Even if it was you, could she have directed you to it?

It's not difficult to steer...

This could be anything but be prepared, this might be her now. My best friend at school lost her mum in a similar way. Her mum went to a full on church when we were about 17, her whole life became that, she tried hard to convert everyone she knew. Lost interest in her own daughter because daughter wouldn't engage.

And i hate to say it, but if she's happy....it's sad for you and her children but it might make her happy. Probably a lot of us go down paths our friends don't like.

Maybe she's just found Jesus?

@Joeblack066

She has been radicalised. Call 101 and ask for Prevent. She has really been brainwashed and no true Christian (or any faith) would want her to be affected this way.

Prevent deal with this? What happened to freedom (rhetorical). Didn't think they'd deal with this though.

This is so sad, really. You clearly want to maintain what is a good friendship, by the sound of things, but how are you supposed to put up with that!

It's really worrying that in just a few weeks the church has managed to convince her of so many things!!

I'd have been out the door as soon as the Harry Potter stuff started - that's a red flag for some next level American-style Christian craziness if ever I heard one!

I really hope you can manage to maintain the friendship, OP. I can see why you're worried.

I do hope 'the church' don't try to convince her to distance herself from you.

how upsetting OP. It must be a sort of sharp grief to 'lose' such a close friends presence in this way.

I have no real advice but would continue to offer her support in an 'always here' sense and reiterate that changing ones mind on anything is a normal part of life in case she wants out but feels ashamed. Also would likely make contact with her DP if we were suitable acquainted just to see his take.

There seems to be a lot of this during lockdown and i do find it upsetting really, peoples fear and trauma must be extremely deep and affecting that there is so much need to turn to extremes of 'new' beliefs in this way. I have seen a lot of extreme conspiracy theory, extreme veganism and all sorts anecdotally during this time, from people who led a live and let live or moderately uncontroversial lifestyle prior.

To clarify re: vegan, absolutely nothing wrong with thatand a lot right with it but I mean posting videos of animal death almost 24/7 on all social media, messaging them and graphic images constantly to friends, cutting of anyone who won't agree to join the cause etc. Very worrying times.

It sounds like your mate has been sucked into a cult. A rapid conversion like this should set off massive alarm bells.

I know cults who drug and use ECT on their recruits, amongst other things. To achieve similar aims.

Report her to social services anonymously and tell them she's acting really weird and you're concerned for the welfare of the children. It sounds like a shit trick, and it is, but, honestly, it might help her to wake up, and she needs to wake up as soon as possible before she gets sucked in.

A fair proportion of these ultra-religious churches are full of sly, vindictive, evil twats and churches like this are often riddled with nonces. Sure, it's all about Jesus on the outside, but when you scratch the surface you can find such lovely stuff like... sexual slavery, human trafficking, financial exploitation, paedophilia, etc. When they've dragged her away from all her usual forms of social support they may well start using their sly boots tactics to control her life.

Giving her body to Jesus: what, like flirty fishing? Google that. There's loads of ugly shit happening 'in Jesus' holy name', both currently and historically, and anyone with sense runs away fast. All that 'washed in the blood', and 'satan everywhere' shit is a bad sign. Trust me. You need to get her away from that shit pronto.

People thing yoga is evil? Jesus wept.