We did not end freedom of movement. The only people we ended fom for is ourselves and our children.

[Kendodd]

I don't know why we would celebrate this.
The children of our EU friends living here still have their fom, when they leave school they'll be free to live and work in any one of 31 countries (I'm pleased for them) our children won't be. I've heard 'EU passport holder' is starting to appear on CVs now as it makes people a more attractive employee in certain sectors.

Oh and I grew up in one of the most deprived areas in the country on state benefits attending a failing school. I made use of fom in my youth and it gave me opportunities young people in my situation won't have anymore. It's not just for rich people.

The UK has imported doctors and nurses since long before the EU.

How do you think Rishi Sunak's dad got his start off?

After leaving the EU we will continue to import doctors and nurses
whose first language is unlikely to be English

The UK has imported doctors and nurses since long before the EU

Some make it seem as if the only solution to the problems we may have is remaining in the EU.

If the issue is that we import too many doctors, let's start to think how we can avoid doing this in the future (it has nothing to do with FOM or the EU)

Those sporting about rogue EU doctors...you do realise Shipman was British?

An exception doesn't make a good generalisation.

turquiose
If the issue is that we import too many doctors, let's start to think how we can avoid doing this in the future (it has nothing to do with FOM or the EU)
But that costs money.
And the UK government cannot make money out of training doctors.
So it will never happen.

Properly funding healthcare and training enough doctors could have been done within the EU
but UK Gov chose not to.
What makes you think they will start now?

Exactly. Why pay to train a doctor when you can get one for free that the EU have paid to train?

It would be so good. A friend is retraining to be a palliative care nurse and she knows she will never make enough to pay back the loan.

The govt just voted down a measly pay rise for nurses after clapping for weeks on end, why would they pay to train them when they wouldn't even do that.

After leaving the EU we will continue to import doctors and nurses
whose first language is unlikely to be English

It’s not just the language that’s an issue. The number of people here from different cultures and religions are changing our culture and making life worse for women and girls. Plus there’s the problem of plain ok’ overpopulation. I wanted to retrain in the health sector when my own collapsed. I don’t think I can even get loans any more as it would be a second undergraduate. It doesn’t matter, since as someone who was hit by the sudden quadrupling of house prices and therefore effectively a member of generation rent, I’m not taking on that debt. Nor can I afford the childcare.

The number of people here from different cultures and religions are changing our culture and making life worse for women and girls.
Do elaborate

I’m referring to people from misogynistic cultures who are importing their own misogyny with them. As I suspect you know but refuse to believe. Rotherham and Telford not really in your world? Not that individual health staff would need to be involved, but they bring their extended families with them.

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

Which cultures? I'd say that British values are very closely aligned with those of the majority of EU citizens?

Eg: In the UK, the overall gender pay gap is at 18.3% higher than the EU-28 average (16%) (but the point is that the numbers are similar)

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

I’m referring to people from misogynistic cultures who are importing their own misogyny with them. As I suspect you know but refuse to believe. Rotherham and Telford not really in your world? Not that individual health staff would need to be involved, but they bring their extended families with them.

And many of those people voted for Brexit to allow immigration to increase from non EU countries

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

Do posters remember upthread when I said about people I knew voting Leave because they didn't want any more Muslims coming here?

So they say, and it seems reasonable. Doubtless some did. It’s a big country. Leicester bucked the trend curiously enough (and has high Asian populations).

(Was replying to LQ there).

And that the one thing that makes me happy about Brexit, will be when these same people realise they've closed the door on immigration from white European Christians and opened the door to brown Asian Muslims. I can't wait!

Why can't we have a hold on any immigration for a while. We have so many unemployed people in the UK as it is.

@Kendodd

And that the one thing that makes me happy about Brexit, will be when these same people realise they've closed the door on immigration from white European Christians and opened the door to brown Asian Muslims. I can't wait!

@MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes

I’m referring to people from misogynistic cultures who are importing their own misogyny with them. As I suspect you know but refuse to believe. Rotherham and Telford not really in your world? Not that individual health staff would need to be involved, but they bring their extended families with them.

These awful cases are to do with failures of the British justice and social welfare systems and it hasn't stopped at these two towns.

@woodhill

Why can't we have a hold on any immigration for a while. We have so many unemployed people in the UK as it is.

And yet 80,000 unfilled vacancies in the NHS

Yes it's bad - how did it get like this

@woodhill

Yes it's bad - how did it get like this

Too few young people and an aging population plus some bizarre policies on removal of funding of healthcare courses and a society that values lawyers, accountants and bankers way above a nurse or a technician. If your smart, why on earth would you choose to work in the NHS? luckily people like my DD do, 50k of debt and 9% student tax and little prospect of ever earning 30k plus or owning her own house unless i die without needing a CH.

We have skills shortages across many sectors, not just health.

@woodhill - stopping immigration will not bring down unemployment nor will leaving the EU. It will increase it greatly.

I absolutely agree that we need to provide decent opportunities for our young people. We need to provide better training opportunities for tradespeople, train more doctors, stop bleeding our kids dry for going to university and build more houses to alleviate the chronic housing shortage. Stopping or cutting numbers of immigrants will do none of those things.

Yes it's dreadful. Really understand about your dd. My dd managed to qualify with funding earlier in the 2010s.

Trouble is the people that come in also need healthcare and resources and get older so it's a vicious circle

@jasjas1973 how do we value lawyers or bankers more than nurses? The state has pretty much ended legal aid and stripped the justice system of its funding so it barely functions. There are easily about 20 times as many young people doing LLBs than there are training positions as solicitors for them.

At least nurses can get jobs after their education. Many lawyers even if they do manage to qualify (especially those in criminal and private client work) earn less than nurses and have little job security and no pension. Yes, there's a good life for the few working in the city but that's the minority of lawyers.

Does a nurse earn 50k plus as a newly qualified in London?

The opportunities are there for the brightest and best, hence why we have 40k plus nurse vacancies (and around 110k across the NHS) and we don't in law/finance.

Working conditions and pay should be raised in poorer countries. Levelling up not down. I don't understand how a continuous global merry-go-round of workers will facilitate this, rather than mainly benefit business owners.