To think that the sex of cats is not on a spectrum?

[FindTheTruth]

Just saw this comment in the comments section of Times Article today talking about Play for Women taking taking the ONS to court for redefining sex in the census

Comment:
I thought that it was an exaggeration that there were extremists who denied sex. Then I went to a local meeting about the toilets in our town. Person after person stood up to say that segregating them by sex was wrong because “sex is reductive and must be replaced by gender identity”. My father - a retired vet - got chatting to one of them afterwards and asked if he knew humans are mammals.
“Ye-es,” he said.
“And if you were to get into breeding other mammals as pets - you would know which cat was of the sex class that could get pregnant by observing their sex organs. So you see, sex is not reductive but instead an absolute basic fundamental in the classification of mammalian life.”
His stupefying reply: “sex is a spectrum, so there would be no guarantees. In that scenario I’d buy a group of cats, leave them alone and they’d figure it out. By the way, you sound like a transphobe.”

AIBU To think that the sex of cats is not on a spectrum?

You really can't argue with stupid, can you?

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask someone to explain why they hold the beliefs they do is it?

It's how debate works innit?

if it upsets you it possible means you need to put some more thought into why you hold the positions you do....

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

The world isn't open to debate about gender

god isn't it scary? gender is a tool to oppress women, and you get silenced for pointing it out

and there are women on here lapping up this nonsense

I was genuinely furious, I hadn't used offensive language, just stated that gender-based sport was unfair to biological women. Funnily enough, most of the following replies were I exactly the same vein, and some were genuinely transphobic, yet didn't see many others get deleted or magically disappear. The only genuine difference was that I was speaking as a woman, and most of the other replies saying it wasn't wrong to ban transwomen from female sports were from (I'm assuming) men. We will be silenced until no one questions it anymore, or are forced to hide in the smallest pockets of the internet to discuss it at all.

@horridhorrid

You really can't argue with stupid, can you?

We shouldn’t be arguing though should we? Or calling people stupid, we should be working towards a better society.

When I came to collect my race number from the Trinity Sports Centre, the lady there said “So you’re male?” as she went to make an adjustment to her spreadsheet. In a slightly triggered tone I said “No, I am female”, and that solved the matter
That trinity student is truly brave and stunning. Fair play to her.

@ErrolTheDragon

* You do know that a person doesn’t have to explain themselves to you, right? They don’t owe you anything and they can hold different opinions. *

Everyone can hold their own opinions. Some turn out to be based on evidence, some don't. Males winning women's sports prizes is happening, for instance, and not just the odd bloke doing it to expose the problem.

Really? I watch a lot of sport and cannot recall a single example other than the South African athlete a couple of years ago (and that wasn’t a clear cut case)

So ok, that story was true, but by the fact it became news it just goes to show that this ain’t a widespread problem. I think there’s bigger fish to fry.

If the thought that a woman missed out on a fun run certificate or some such keeps you awake at nights ...it’s probably not about trans, is it. Everything ok at home?

For the record, I do believe in biological sex which isn’t a spectrum but I also think that people become hysterical about this issue when it has almost no impact on them. If someone ide rogues as trans why are you so bothered. Must be exhausting spending v all day every day being the victim/ looking to be offended by others

I told my cat they were on a spectrum. They ignored me.
I told my cat they could identify as they wished. They ignored me.
I told my cat that the tuna in the dish shouldn't be eaten as it identified as non cat food. They ignored me

[quote Anyoneelsewilldo]@Shannon9873 I have just spoken the truth on this thread Shannon. I’ve provided you with actual photos to back up what I am saying and now that you can’t wave that away as being untrue you attack my character.

Interesting! Women attacking other women for telling the truth.

Nothing gets people as rabid on MN as a trans debate, does it. Anyoneswilldo wouldn’t dare speak to people like this in the real world but Mumsnet does get a little bit hunger games, especially with this topic.[/quote]
You know we probably agree, right? I’m not saying you’re wrong

I’m not attacking your beliefs and I don’t believe I am attacking your character but, if I am, it’s because you come across as rabid. You’re looking to shut down the debate not encourage it.

@Shannon9873 on the off chance you are serious, here's a load of information. Women could actually die in some sports against male opponents.

fairplayforwomen.com/sport/

Why on earth does originalusername2021 have to explain themselves to you????

There can be no debate because people
Like you DEMAND agreement or it starts to get nasty.

You get a ‘calm down, love’ too

@Shannon9873, or is it that people like yourself start getting uber offended and defensive once questions start getting asked that people cannot answer in relation to their beliefs? My original question to the pp was within the context of their own posts.

Also, guess what - a debate cannot happen without people challenging and questioning each others opposing views. That's not 'nasty' or 'demanding' of other posters. Without questioning aspects of a statement, it's just people shouting out personal opinions without taking in the actual conversation and flouncing when they find the replies too difficult. If you do not have the capacity to hold your own in a serious debate, with firm evidence to back your opinions, then simply don't get involved in the debate. 'I have my views and that's that' is in no way productive to finding a common ground or concluding which side is more correct.

Ignore @Shannon9873 @ErrolTheDragon

When she can’t wave away what you’re saying as untrue to suit her own agenda she resorts to personal attacks such as on you and me and now minimises the problem.

My female cat 'phantom sprays', where she appears to be spraying like a male cat but with no urine. I've never seen it before but it's known to happen

It’s completely normal territorial behaviour. Male or female cat.

You have a sample size of two. Likely your other cat doesn’t spray because the spraying one is dominant.

It definitely doesn’t mean cat sex is a spectrum and your cat is displaying “male” characteristics

What’s more interesting about cat sex is it’s linked to coat colour- all torties are female unless they have a DSD (xxy).

Maybe those who identify as female should dye their hair ginger/black/white then we can clearly see what they identify as chromosomally...

As always I find it very satisfying on these threads when there’s a clear difference between the posters who can’t back up their comments and start resorting to ‘calm down love’ and those who argue clearly, intelligently and with full use of statistics and examples.

This isn’t just about ‘fun runs’ but even if it WAS why does a man get to take away the validation a woman would have got? Why is HER feeling and achievement immediately dismissed as unimportant? I truly don’t understand.

[quote drspouse]@Shannon9873 on the off chance you are serious, here's a load of information. Women could actually die in some sports against male opponents.

fairplayforwomen.com/sport/[/quote]
Die? Oh come off it. Where are all these dead female athletes. Mass graves? Overwhelmed hospitals full of female squash players?

This is exactly what I mean, it’s all hyperbole. Ask yourself why you fee so upset by something that really doesn’t have any impact.

For the record I believe in binary sex. I believe male and female sports should be separated. Not disagreeing with that I’m just baffled why it’s SO important to some people. How are you affected. Can’t we all just get along????

Really? I watch a lot of sport and cannot recall a single example other than the South African athlete a couple of years ago (and that wasn’t a clear cut case)

For the record, I do believe in biological sex which isn’t a spectrum but I also think that people become hysterical about this issue when it has almost no impact on them. If someone ide rogues as trans why are you so bothered. Must be exhausting spending v all day every day being the victim/ looking to be offended by others

There are many examples at male born people placing in women's sports, and taking from biological women.

How are women 'playing the victim and looking to be offended' but those living by gender beliefs are to be treated seriously when offended?

Tiffany Abreu Brazilian volleyball player hoping to compete in next Olympics
CeCe Telfer USA hurdler aiming to compete at next Olympics
Laura Hubbard New Zealand weightlifter heading for Tokyo
Italian Paralympic athlete chosen for Tokyo games
Alaskan newbie marathon runner trying out for Olympic qualification in USA.

All of the above athletes, most of whom have previously completed in male events will soon be making their names in female sport.

I want to get back to the cat.

Did anyone even try to ask the cat what gender it was? Or out out pink and blue bowls to see which colour the cat was attracted to?

Mine doesn’t even know he’s a cat. He believes he’s my son and we never discuss it.

@YouSetTheTone This isn’t just about ‘fun runs’ but even if it WAS why does a man get to take away the validation a woman would have got? Why is HER feeling and achievement immediately dismissed as unimportant? I truly don’t understand

You nailed it.

And this is only the tip of the iceberg. I don’t know if anyone has noticed but in literature on cervical cancer all references to women have been removed. This matters as minorities and people with low education may not know that ‘people with a cervix’ applies to them. So women’s health is at risk.

If the thought that a woman missed out on a fun run certificate or some such keeps you awake at nights ...it’s probably not about trans, is it. Everything ok at home?

I think this is how seriously we need to take Shannon

@Anyoneelsewilldo

Ignore *@Shannon9873* *@ErrolTheDragon*

When she can’t wave away what you’re saying as untrue to suit her own agenda she resorts to personal attacks such as on you and me and now minimises the problem.

You know I am agreeing with you. Said this multiple times now? Not sure what I am trying to ‘wave away’

Women should compete with other women in sports and trans person shouldn’t be included for the reasons previously given. I am not against you on this.

Can we agree that, at least? I’m not arguing with your beliefs just how you have presented them

@Cissyandflora

Trying to erase the trans population is wrong

How is stating a biological fact erasing the trans population? Or are you saying that transpeople are only validated and real if we deny biological facts? Because they do still exist. And we know that transwomen are biological males and transmen are biological females. And that's ok. They're still there, they're not erased, you don't need to worry....

@HermitsLife

If the thought that a woman missed out on a fun run certificate or some such keeps you awake at nights ...it’s probably not about trans, is it. Everything ok at home?

I think this is how seriously we need to take Shannon

Oh but people are taking me seriously , aren’t they. Deadly seriously...and I’m Not actually disagreeing with them.

Ok, Shannon, so we agree but don't like each other's approach. 'Calm down love' and 'everything all right at home' (very much so, fwiw) are rather weird responses tbh.

If you're actually interested in women's sport, take a look at the research behind world rugby's decision to keep women's international rugby for women.