Consequence for 11 yo ds kicking me

[IloveHolby]

Hi mumsnetters

I’ve name changed as not posted for a few years. Ds 11 kicked me hard last week because I told him not to get involved in his sisters roblox dealings with her friend. He wanted to tell us all what a bad deal her friend was making and that she was getting scammed. Dd was happy to wait to video call her friend and was happy with the deal.

Ds kept talking, I told him I’m not interested and he reacted by threatening to break my laptop. He kicked me hard then followed up with 2 not hard kicks. So I banned him from roblox for a week and he had no pocket money this week.

He thinks this is too harsh...aibu?

I’m usually a soft touch - I don’t want to damage our relationship

Please don’t give him the chance to earn it back

@lifeturnsonadime

Yes we absolutely do need to consider what causes a child to be violent. It is not normal behaviour. It is wrong to assume that this is a 'bad child'. Behaviour, of anyone, is a form of communication.

If a child is violent it is often because they can't or don't know how to make themselves heard otherwise. My child had a period of being violent because he was suffering so much with anxiety and couldn't find the words to express it. Remove the cause of the anxiety and listen to the reasons for it the violence goes.

It is not acceptable for any human being to be violent towards another person but we need to teach this to some children.

The OP stated that her child had tried to explain that his sister was at some form of risk in a game. It seems he felt, rightly or wrongly that he hadn't been listened to. He needs to be taught that the behaviour is unacceptable (punishment is completely appropriate) but also it is worth the OP exploring with him what could have happened differently with regards to the frustration he felt at not being listened to. The problem with punishment without the discussion is that we are not teaching our children better responses. We are making assumptions they have emotional intelligence that they may be incapable of.

Exactly. This is what I was trying to express in my post.

Just punishing a child for their bad behaviour and escalating the next time there is bad behaviour without thinking about ways of dealing with this more effectively will only create an environment, where he also escalates his behaviour further.

Thus creating a combative dynamic of win / lose or even lose / lose, where the parent thinks they must bring the child down to a manageable level at any cost instead of realising that once your child reaches a certain size and age, parenting rather like policing in this country is by mutual consent.

At 11 he is likely not there yet. But by 14 it not before, it will be a different story.

He voiced a concern; you told him you weren’t interested; he got really frustrated.

Of course he shouldn’t kick or threaten to break things, and that needs dealing with, but tbh so does the way you spoke to him. He tried to communicate something which was worrying him and you showed him that his feelings don’t matter to you.

He needs sanctions for violence and threats; you need to apologise for being rude and dismissive.

@TheHoneyBadger

Perhaps more importantly than which punishment you chose you need a serious talk. He needs to understand using violence against you is absolutely unacceptable. You need to talk about the fact that as a boy one day, in the not too distant future, he will be larger and stronger than you.

This is a conversation that was had young and retouched upon regularly with my ds. If he has ever so much as physically blocked my way or used his weight against me it has been dealt with really seriously (not by punishments but very real conversations about what you will and won't accept in your home or your life full stop).

My ds is now nearly 14.

You really need to have a serious talk about this. There is no way ds would've ever dared kicked me in temper and if he did he would need to get away from me and stay away from me and think about his behaviour for quite some time before we were even ready to talk about consequences.

That's an interesting point. What did you do during toddler phase as my DS who has just turned 3 has been hitting, biting, throwing things around, i would expect the throwing things around, having tantrums but not sure about anything else, only DC so nothing to compare to.

@WoolieLiberal

A couple of decades ago a son of a relative did this to his Mum.

The son was non SEN, 13 years old and had never been smacked. Mum and Dad were both fairly soft touch.

When the Dad came home and found out gave him a beating for the first time in his life.

It never happened again.

Dealing with it like that would be illegal now, and I’ve never hit my DD’s either but he has crossed a line. At 11 he is over the age of criminal responsibility.

Perhaps a reality check is in order for him- tell him that Social Services could take him away if he’s a danger to you (true).

Gentle parenting breeds violent, selfish children.

I don't know to an extent, I have for various reasons found myself being more brash with my DS and I just find he copies me then, so know it doesn't help.

Maybe I'm not the soft touch I thought I was actually! Never in a million years would I apologise to my son after he was violent with me.

This is baffling!

Mines 9 and I wouldn't tolerate being kicked by him. He is a tall strong boy already and it would really hurt!

I think leaving aside the punishment you need a serious chat with your 11 year old. He is far too old for this.

@IloveHolby

Hi mumsnetters

I’ve name changed as not posted for a few years. Ds 11 kicked me hard last week because I told him not to get involved in his sisters roblox dealings with her friend. He wanted to tell us all what a bad deal her friend was making and that she was getting scammed. Dd was happy to wait to video call her friend and was happy with the deal.

Ds kept talking, I told him I’m not interested and he reacted by threatening to break my laptop. He kicked me hard then followed up with 2 not hard kicks. So I banned him from roblox for a week and he had no pocket money this week.

He thinks this is too harsh...aibu?

I’m usually a soft touch - I don’t want to damage our relationship

It sounds to me like you're not really taking this all that seriously tbh.

It's serious for an 11 year old boy to kick his mother hard.

Apologise for not shutting down your conversation with your daughter to listen to your 11 year old child mansplain why he knows better than both of you no less

As a friend used to say, they don't lick it up off the floor you know.

Ruby I'd say show you're in pain, say ow, pretend to be really sad and hurt etc. Let them see the consequence. I would say something like fall out with them briefly because you don't want to play because they hurt you and now you don't want to play with them but some people on here would be calling the nspcc I think.

Just as a btw if an 11yo did that at school to a teacher they would be excluded and all kinds of alarm bells would go off about home, developmental issues etc. It's not ok for an 11yo to assault an adult.

Isn't use your words what we say to 3 year olds not adults.
He kicked his mum , its assault however you look at it and if he did this to another adult there would be serious consequences.
So therefore punishment should be serious , no excuse what caused the behaviour , he was violent.
So yes your punishment is def not to harsh , mine would of been a complete ban from all electrinics.
When my ds was 14 and went through a really rude stage , his xbox came to my work for 2 weeks so that he had no access to it.
If he had kicked me and threatened to break my laptop, well it would of been gone a lot longer . But I am a pretty strict parent on certain issues anyway
But I do agree you also need to talk to him and I would prob say to my ds how disappointed I am and upset and that its ok to be angry but not to hit out.

Apologise to a child for them kicking you? Good grief. That's just handing them the, "but she made me do it" excuse on a plate! The correct lesson would surely be, even if someone is rude and dismissive to you, you don't hurt them?

He was frustrated his mother chose not to listen to him,... it happens.

To retaliate by kicking her 3 times and threatening to smash her laptop is not acceptable under ANY circumstances.

There is no excuse.

Unless the OP has some big back story that she has yet to tell us, her son is on his way to being a right thug.

I would be very concerned about his interactions with his sister if he feels so entitled to do this to his mother.

Frustrations and not getting the response he wants from his mother would never excuse this behaviour in our home.

This is not normal behaviour and needs to be dealt with decisively.

He needs it made crystal clear to him that he has made a HUGE mistake.

Has he any father to explain to him how wrong his behaviour is?

Sulking upstairs 🙄

He wanted to tell us all what a bad deal her friend was making and that she was getting scammed. Dd was happy to wait to video call her friend and was happy with the deal.

Ds kept talking, I told him I’m not interested

That's not great.

he reacted by threatening to break my laptop. He kicked me hard then followed up with 2 not hard kicks

That's absolutely unacceptable and can't be ignored. And the punishment for that is possibly a little lighter than he deserved.

However, you do need to talk to him about what he said and did. He's clearly not remorseful at this point, so it needs to be spelled out to him why threats and violence are never the answer. But you do need to talk about why he felt so angry, and listen to that, as well as telling him that people WILL make him angry, and sometimes, like you, they won't always get it right. But he CANNOT keep reacting in this way. Explore with him how he can deal with it in a way that is neither destructive of other people's property, or physically violent.

The punishment is certainly not too heavy, but there also needs to be a talk, because on its own, the punishment hasn't got to him.

You need to make it clear to him that his console will go the next time he gets physical with anyone. I would also, next time you have an argument, let him say his piece.

Unless he’s a violent boy this sounds a bit like he was frustrated you weren’t listening to him. He is right in terms of how these scams work on roblox and your job as a parent is to acknowledge that but then say it’s dd’s money to do with as she wishes and make consequences of the risk known to your dd. Eg pocket money which is lost to scams isn’t replaced.

Hi all thanks for the replies. To answer some of the questions-
Yes I am aware of scamming on roblox - my son fell out with his best friend over it. Dd had already said she was happy with the deal and it was her best friend. Ds was aggravating the situation.

Ds likes to argue the toss when he’s been told to drop the subject. It was the 3rd time that day. I absolutely give my children a chance to speak and be heard but sometimes he really needs to learn not to get involved.

He has done this before (aggression to me) but not for a couple of years. He is very remorseful. I’m not sure that consequences work as in the moment he sees red and snaps. I’ve watched videos with him, bought books on anger management. He’s got better, I do think lockdown and lack of sports & time with friends is having an impact.

No issues at school or with other people. He has has incidents at school in the past - pushing a kid, not hitting or kicking since year r.

He’s much better than he was at home - he’s very competitive and a perfectionist and easily frustrated.

I do tend to let him earn back privileges which is why I think maybe I’m too soft.

Dh is around but he could do with anger management himself -he won’t accept that though. He’s not physically aggressive but over reacts and stomps off swearing. He always goes on about giving ds a beating. Obviously I won’t let him. He has never used the sticker charts I’ve made in the past and when he does react it’s over minor things and he gets angry and threatens a months ban for sibling bickering.

My brothers were aggressive to me so I don’t tolerate aggression from him to dd. They get on brilliantly most of the time. I believe in sorting out their differences by hearing what they each have to say. Dh hears then bicker and shouts threats at ds without finding out what the issue is.

I do appreciate the responses and I’m sticking to my guns re no roblox or pocket money. He was fine earlier - not sulking or plotting revenge!

I think you and his dad (if he is in his life) both need to come down on him like a ton of bricks. I still think your reaction was mild.

One thing I am curious is why his reaction to his sister's trade was so strong. Is he making unfair trades with her and losing out by the trade with her friend or because he actually was upset for his sister? Can you see his trading history. I have no idea about gaming in general and there is absolutely no excuses either way but if you allow him back on the game (I wouldn't if it is such a source of agression) but I would not allow him trade with his sister.

What kind of games does he play/have access to? Does he have access (not necessarily in your house) that shows violence against people? Does his school have a school liaison police officer or do you have a neighbourhood liaison police officer. If you do I would ask them to have a word.

How are you doing? You have been assaulted by a love one. Would you consider taking pictures of your bruises and showing him them when he comes sulking.

Ok you’ve explained it better. I think under these circumstances then I wouldn’t expect to let him earn the privileges back.

You said sometimes he needs to learn not to get involved. Then this is the line I would use. “I’ve heard what you’ve but your sister is happy with the swap and it isn’t your place to get involved.”

Dh is around but he could do with anger management himself -he won’t accept that though. He’s not physically aggressive but over reacts and stomps off swearing. He always goes on about giving ds a beating. Obviously I won’t let him. He has never used the sticker charts I’ve made in the past and when he does react it’s over minor things and he gets angry and threatens a months ban for sibling bickering.

Um...yeah. There's your problem...

@TheHoneyBadger

Aah, thanks for explaining. I have 3 daughters - no sons - and it's a different relationship. I can totally see how the subject might have come up in the context of rough play or whatever.

Has he actually apologised to you though, OP? Or checked that you're physically undamaged by that kick? Does he have any empathy after the fact?

He was fine earlier - not sulking or plotting revenge!

Good.

But it looks like you have an OH problem, most and foremost.

I would use what happened today to give him a reality check. Violent behaviour, even as threats or directed at things, generates violent behaviour.
Your son has been in an environment where the man models violent behaviour. Both of you need to have a good think about that.

My friend's son did similar stuff and became extremely aggressive with his mother and sister. He had anger management and counselling at school. SS became involved. He hurt his sister and accused his mother of hurting him when she intervened. He was trying to be in charge as the only 'man' in the household whilst still in primary school.

They said it was early puberty. They've had several hard years but he eventually has come back as a responsible, loving post-teen adult. He is still hot headed though but doesn't lose him temper as often.

Op, it's hard punishing kids and most of us feel guilty later but he shouldn't have kicked you. May be he felt unheard as you did seem to be cutting him off when he was trying to tell you something. Either way you have to firm about this and nip it asap. Don't get into the negotiations about his time off stuff us harsh or not. "Hitting won't be tolerated", is the message that should get across very clearly even if this seems like a one off incident . is he apologetic or feeling bad for what has happened? How are you holding up op?

Your latest post gives more background.

What is being done to support your da emotional literacy? To help him unlock why he needs to make sure everyone is ok to such a death and why he struggles to watch others make their own mistakes? Because until he cans dress why he gets so overwhelmed and find a way to deal with that he won't manage to stop getting irrationally violent if that's what happens in these situations.

Punishment is a consequence of a behaviour but it isn't the cure.

That's why prisoners are helped in prison.

Also why are you allowing your children to live with an abusive role model and then punishing the male child for copying their male role model?

Personally this should be a big wake up call for you to honestly look at your situation, how you deal with ds getting overwhelmed by seeing others potentially getting a bad deal in the future and how you think da will behave differently when his father doesn't?

My ds is autistic and he's so overly empathetic he has panic attacks if he thinks someone else will get a bad deal. We've spent years working with him on this rather than punishing his meltdowns because he's so emotionally overwhelmed. (Ds was never violent towards others though - he threw things, trashed his room or more often self harmed)