Consequence for 11 yo ds kicking me

[IloveHolby]

Hi mumsnetters

I’ve name changed as not posted for a few years. Ds 11 kicked me hard last week because I told him not to get involved in his sisters roblox dealings with her friend. He wanted to tell us all what a bad deal her friend was making and that she was getting scammed. Dd was happy to wait to video call her friend and was happy with the deal.

Ds kept talking, I told him I’m not interested and he reacted by threatening to break my laptop. He kicked me hard then followed up with 2 not hard kicks. So I banned him from roblox for a week and he had no pocket money this week.

He thinks this is too harsh...aibu?

I’m usually a soft touch - I don’t want to damage our relationship

A couple of decades ago a son of a relative did this to his Mum.

The son was non SEN, 13 years old and had never been smacked. Mum and Dad were both fairly soft touch.

When the Dad came home and found out gave him a beating for the first time in his life.

It never happened again.

Dealing with it like that would be illegal now, and I’ve never hit my DD’s either but he has crossed a line. At 11 he is over the age of criminal responsibility.

Perhaps a reality check is in order for him- tell him that Social Services could take him away if he’s a danger to you (true).

Gentle parenting breeds violent, selfish children.

Don’t feel guilty , he shouldn’t have hurt you like that .

Does he have any learning disabilities , autism adhd as kicking out like that sounds like my son he has very impulsive aggression with those diagnoses.
Just trying to understand if anymore background to his behaviours .

Sorry but I don't think it's harsh enough, of course a kid is going too see everything as too harsh but he assaulted you. 5 years time that could land him in juvie. Hes at that age where he should know you don't touch someone.

Sorry multiple posts on your thread but I've even told ds that if he was violent towards me we would have to look at different living arrangements because I would never live with someone who was violent to me.

Both my sister (after divorce) and I (from the start) raised our children alone. My nephew once pushed my sister and was sent out of the house and walked the streets for hours and came back mortified at what he'd done. He still remembers it to this day (now 22) and is shocked that he did it and doesn't blame her at all for throwing him out of the house.

If ds did this to me he'd need to go and stay at my parents, not worry about whether he could play on his games or not. It would need to be a shocking absolutely clear a massive unbreakable line has been crossed response.

This isn't about toys being confiscated etc this is really serious.

Perhaps a reality check is in order for him- tell him that Social Services could take him away if he’s a danger to you (true).

For the love of Christ! 🤦🏻‍♀️

This is awful advice.

What he did was absolutely wrong. No question. However, from his perspective he was trying to say something he considered important, to you & not being listened to. He was also looking out for his sister, it seems.

The consequence is not too harsh. BUT (and I speak from my own experience here, too) HoneyBadger's advice is spot on. You need to have a strong & clear conversation with him where you discuss how wrong it is, how it hurt you, understanding of his own strength & setting appropriate boundaries. These conversations are vital.

He's pre-pubescent boy, and these issues of strong emotions & physical aggression need to be dealt with. He has to learn that with your support.

Some of the recommendations here are awful. Take his device away & lie to him etc. That will not help at all only breed lack of trust in your relationship.

Be prepared to forgive him too, when the appropriate conversations have been had.

I think in your shoes I would have a discussion with him about why this completely crossed a line.

After half term I would speak to his school - ask for a teacher/pastoral worker/family support person to talk to him and reiterate how utterly unacceptable violence in the home is (well, anywhere of course!).
Does he need extra emotional support through school when they return?
Do you need some parenting support OP? School family support worker should be able to help with both.

Pocket money, devices etc - I would take them away but with the opportunity for him to earn them back by showing good behaviour and making amends. Maybe if he can spend the week speaking respectfully, doing his chores without being nagged etc he can earn things back.
Maybe suggest some extra things he could do like cleaning your car to show he is sorry.

@WoolieLiberal

A couple of decades ago a son of a relative did this to his Mum.

The son was non SEN, 13 years old and had never been smacked. Mum and Dad were both fairly soft touch.

When the Dad came home and found out gave him a beating for the first time in his life.

It never happened again.

Dealing with it like that would be illegal now, and I’ve never hit my DD’s either but he has crossed a line. At 11 he is over the age of criminal responsibility.

Perhaps a reality check is in order for him- tell him that Social Services could take him away if he’s a danger to you (true).

Gentle parenting breeds violent, selfish children.

It’s now illegal for a very good reason fgs! Also teaching him to be afraid social services is a terrible idea when they are a service that actually aim to help families not just take a child away.

Please can I see your evidence for your statement on gentle parenting breeding selfish, violent children?

Jeez OP I don't think you were harsh enough, I think some of the punishments PP's have suggested would be more appropriate. He needs telling, in no uncertain terms, that what he did was totally unacceptable. He assaulted you fgs!

@TheHoneyBadger
I've even told ds that if he was violent towards me we would have to look at different living arrangements because I would never live with someone who was violent to me.

Genuinely curious, but how did this even come up in a hypothetical way with your son? I'm just wondering because we don't tend to bring up things in conversation that will never happen.

@TheHoneyBadger

I've just quoted your excellent earlier post but this last one I would respectfully disagree with.

I'm a single parent to 2 boys & a girl. Their dad is useless.

I am facing these issues myself; I agree with you about 'red lines' re physical aggression (& I include shouting, banging doors excessively etc). However, the sending away is the wrong message, IMO. Instead, I enlist my brothers to talk to my sons, with the aim of providing good male role models.

I would ask if a police officer or one of those psco ones, if they would come and have a chat with him. He is at the age of where he could be charged for violence.
Its completely unacceptable and your punishment is not harsh enough. You most definitely have no reason to feel guilty. He should feel guilty and the fact he is upstairs sulking about how harsh he thinks his punishment is, shows how little guilt he actually feels about it.

I was not meaning to press charges against your son BTW. Just see if an officer could talk to him about the seriousness of it all

Is his dad in the picture? I know the one time that ds(now14) squared up to me (he didn’t actually lay a hand on me) his older brother had some serious words too, about being a man, and violence against women. I mean I told him too, but I do think it’s important for them to hear it from a male role model.
That ds still struggles with his emotions, but he’s having counselling, and while he might blow up occasionally (shout etc) I don’t believe he’d hit me.

If it was me I would have come down harder. YANBU, at all.

I think he needs to understand that he is over the age of criminal responsibility and next time he assaults you you’ll call the police. Completely unacceptable behaviour and your punishment isn’t too harsh.

To be honest I do not think you have come down on him harsh enough. Has anything like this happened at home/school before?

Not harsh enough
What he did was so out of order if you don’t come down hard on him now this behaviour will escalate.
I’d have put early bed on there. No online at all. Boring normal tv cbbc they type

[quote bloodyhairy]@TheHoneyBadger
I've even told ds that if he was violent towards me we would have to look at different living arrangements because I would never live with someone who was violent to me.

Genuinely curious, but how did this even come up in a hypothetical way with your son? I'm just wondering because we don't tend to bring up things in conversation that will never happen.
[/quote]
Forward thinking really. When play got too rough when he was little we would talk about knowing our own strength, knowing when someone is not finding it funny anymore, respecting when someone tells you not to do something because it's hurting them (whether you think it should hurt or not), respecting people's boundaries.

Conversations about managing strong emotions, processing anger, dealing with boundaries etc. Conversations about the fact that he was going to be bigger than me one day. Talking about positive relationships and bad relationships and abuse and violence and etc?

I have only had one child, only ever been a single mum and only ever had a boy and a very verbal curious emotionally smart boy who asks questions so I don't have anything but my own experience to draw upon but these all seemed like important themes for a mother and son to talk about to me?

EarringsandLipstick - I think time out is a really important thing for all of us sometimes when emotions get out of control. Baring in mind I said he'd have to go and stay with my parents for the night - which would indeed be where his grandad who is his male role model would be.

I would hope it wouldn't be necessary with ds because a) I don't think this would happen and b) if it did I think he'd be instantly mortified and more angry and ashamed of himself than anything else - his actions would shock him rather than me needing to shock him itms?

OPs 11yo doesn't seem shocked by his own behaviour or even remorseful so to me it seems those boundaries and discussions have not taken place and there is no respect or awareness of that limit.

Not harsh. What does he think is an appropriate punishment for assault? In just a few years he could be arrested for that behaviour

Not harsh enough
If my 12 year old DS kicked me there would be no screens until I got a genuine apology

And feeling shame is the appropriate response here. You should feel ashamed if you do something violent to someone you love. I do think it's important to sit with that reality a bit rather than smooth over it instantly. That's a 'natural consequence' that's built into us.

Pathological shame is awful (I should know sadly) but natural shame at our own actions inspiring us to express remorse, repair damages and resolve not to repeat is a very natural, real and I'd go as far as to say desirable consequence. The absence of that in a person is quite dangerous as we know.

I don’t think it’s harsh enough either. And there’s no way you should feel guilty.
When he calms down and comes down you need a serious chat about consequences of that behaviour, that you know it’s stressful with lockdown etc but no court would consider that in its verdict only in its sentencing. He needs to think long and hard about it, and how would he feel if a stranger did that to you.

You need to remember the punishment is for his own benefit. If you don't get control over him now he could turn into a violent adult and how would that benefit him ? Let him be upset for a while. His actions have caused this consequence and he needs to realise this. You need to stay firm and be in charge. Its for the protection of his sister as well.

Bloody hell!!! Not at all rash enough. You’re relationship seems pretty fucked if he thinks it’s ok to kick you hard, how much further is it going to go.

I’d have gone absolutely spare if one of mine had done this. Probably would have struggled not to kick him back too.

No screens or fun for a week, no pocket money, a letter of apology explaining why it was wrong and probably some additional chores and I’d still think I was being generous.