friend got job she knew I wanted

[fcekinghell]

It may be my own stupid fault, lesson learned but anyway.

I have an industry mentor. Mentors were being offered to people in my field about 2 years ago and I put myself forward as a means to widen my network, find out about new opportunities etc, especially as I wasn't happy where I was at the time.

I got assigned to a woman I will call Debbie. We had a few Zoom calls, emails etc where she gave me some tips and advice on how to move into employers like her own.

For the record, I am more qualified and experienced than Debbie but wanted a mentor to help me into that kind of employer. Debbie told me to keep her posted on my job hunting. Offered to help with my CV and interview skills if I needed it.

Well I got made redundant in Covid. Debbie still working where she is. Then my dream job came up. I excitedly told Debbie, telling her its my dream job. I did the application and asked Debbie what she thought, was there anything missing. She told me it was 'perfect' and 'good luck'.

Well, I didn't get the job. They said they might recruit later in the year and they'll let me know. I've now heard that Debbie got the job.

It feels like a real kick in the stomach. She was my mentor. She knew this was my dream job and jobs like this don't come up often. In fact, really rarely. She knew I was unemployed whilst she was still working. Plus this job is asking for a particular skill which I do not believe she has.

DH and my DM are telling me I am a fucking idiot for speaking to her. I am aren't I? I probably gave her all the answers too!

I'm so upset

For the love of God, of course Debbie was underhand. She should have told OP that she was applying for the same job.

And if she heard about the job through OP's application then that is even worse.

It's very unprofessional on Debbie's behalf

Debbie should have declared her interest in the role, and/or declined to review your application. She had an unfair advantage in that she could cherrypick from the best aspects of your application and blow up her own attributes. She put you at a disadvantage and YANBU.
However
It’s done. There’s not a means of reporting her code of conduct it seems so I’d just try to put it behind me if I were you OP.
Sorry 🌸 it’s a sucky situation

She doesn't have to tell anyone she is applying for a job. She could have said no to the OP but she managed to help the OP get an interview.

She should definitely have said she couldn't advise you.

But she's not your friend.

Sorry you didn't get them job. That sucks.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I'm surprised at the mixed responses. Yes, Debbie might have been going to apply/have applied anyway, but in that case she shouldn't have fucking let the OP tell her all her answers. That is totally unethical. When you agree to act as someone's mentor, you have to behave ethically towards then.

We only have OP's word for that. OP is no doubt telling it how she sees it but there are two sides to every story and I'll bet my bottom $ that Debbie would have a very different side to tell.

I've applied for jobs and not wanted to tell a soul. That's Debbie's prerogative too. She may have many reasons for not wanting anyone to know. She didn't sabotage OPs application, as she got to interview fine. As already stated, professional jobs don't have answers you can just copy on an application form. Ultimately OP just wasn't the best candidate. Maybe next time if so paranoid don't share a job application with someone at a similar level in such a niche industry.

but in that case she shouldn't have fucking let the OP tell her all her answers.

I am not sure some posters have a clue how recruitment actually works. It's not high school anymore!

I think Debbie has been less than honest I'm not telling you she was applying but other than that I don't. See much wrong.
As for you being more qualified etc, I'm sorry but I have employed people in the past and have sometimes overlooked a 'requirement' if I felt someone had the right attitude or was a good fit - which sounds like what's happened here. She hasn't necessarily lied, I often l overlooked a professional body membership on the understanding it would be joined at a later date or tbh all together if the person impressed me at the interview.
I'm sorry you didn't get the job, I get that you're disappointed but attacking Debbie isn't entirely fair.

@fcekinghell If you are so superior a candidate than you need to ask them for feedback.

And I still think after 2 years she was no longer your mentor. I assume the mentoring would have a set beginning and end or be routinely reassessed and resumed. Unless it's a more informal arrangement I guess, informally giving hints and tips. If she genuinely is still officially your mentor (you originally pretty much claimed she was just a friend now) then you should report it to whoever organizes the mentoring scheme, as it was a conflict of interest in a way for her to look over your application for something she was already applying for.

If she is really your mentor, why were you calling her a friend on here? I think you have issues with relating to people. This maybe came across at interview. I have ASD traits so I understand what it can be like...that might be something that's worth you looking into, to give a generous explanation.

(I still think she did find out about the job via you BTW maybe.)

You don't know that she 'lied' on the application about being in the professional bodies etc. It could be that for some reason her listing isn't up but she is a member. Some sites let you keep it confidential in case you don't want it listed for whatever reason.

I don't think she copied your work, I'm sure she's capable of making her own application.

How do you know Debbie didn't review the OPs application and then a few days or a week later look at the job advert again and decided to go for it?

@Buccanarab That's a good point.

I think Debbie had a clear conflict of interest, which she did not declare. This is unethical and inappropriate behaviour for a mentor.

Sure, it's not OP's job to exclusively apply for but she should have been made aware her so-called mentor had, or was going to apply for it.

I have to say, I do think all the PPs criticising OP's 'attitude' need to be a bit more compassionate. She's come her to sound off and it's a forum not a job interview.

Was she being paid to be your mentor? Do you have some sort of legal recourse with that? Who matched you both together to start with? What do they have to say about this?

Could the Employer have picked her as she was the ''cheaper package''? If she doesn't have the relevant industry membership and the like, perhaps she is one of those people who come across they can do the same job, for a lot less.

In these crazy times, that has a lot of sway and perhaps the Employer thought they could make up the lack of professional support with their own in house training?

Whatever the reason is, I doubt they are going to tell you anymore and if Debbie finds out you are digging about it, assuming she was sneaky about this, she will cover her tracks with the Employer. It's probably better if you don't end up working together down the track.

Frustrating for you all the same.!

@SteveBrexit

but in that case she shouldn't have fucking let the OP tell her all her answers.

I am not sure some posters have a clue how recruitment actually works. It's not high school anymore!

I run my own company and employ over 100 people. I'm still capable of not being a complete cunt to someone I am mentoring.

Have you answered how you know she got it yet?

I don't know why she got it over me but she definitely does not have a key essential skill they asked for (and I do).

The employer told me they wanted someone with the relevant qualifications and memberships so on the latter point she definitely lied.

OP, YABmassivelyU.

I get your disappointment on a personal level.

However I have to say you sound both immature & far less experienced than you claim.

You appear to have no understanding of the nature of the job market & I've included the above quotes as an illustration.

The employers met both of you & decided they wanted her. Undoubtedly you had skills she didn't, and vice versa. Ultimately on balance, she was the stronger candidate.

You are so unreasonable - and quite unpleasant - to accuse her of lying. You cannot know this. Even if the employer said that, they met her in an interview situation, and she performed better there. Otherwise they wouldn't have hired her.

You also were considered a strong candidate, hence why you got called to interview.

Also regarding feedback that's very slight feedback to get. Did you ask for your scores? You are entitled to those firstly, and then most interview board chairs would be open to debriefing you afterwards on specific areas of strength & areas to work on.

It's very surprising to me if you are relatively senior & not had that feedback.

I think you need to move on. You are unfairly focused on Debbie. There isn't just one dream job. There will be other roles, tho I know that's still no help when you are unemployed at the moment.

but in that case she shouldn't have fucking let the OP tell her all her answers.

There are no answers! It's not secondary school!

An interview is multi-faceted, any organisation worth their salt will ask questions that probe the interviewee sufficiently to find out if they are a good fit.

I mentor people and it involves building up trust to create openness and get the best out of the arrangement. Although there isn't a formal code for mentoring, whatever training you have to do it will have trust and confidentiality at its heart.

She betrayed your trust, in that situation as a mentor I would have declared my interest in getting a new role, wished you the very best of luck and told you that obvs I couldn't look at your CV. She possibly used information you gave her (your application) to her advantage as unlike you, she would have able to weigh up 'the other candidate' and play into this for her application.

Although it sucks that she didn't need this job as much as you, I think I could live with that if she hadn't snuck around. Terrible Mentoring.

It's a small world OP, I hope karma bites her in the ass and you end up as her boss someday. Then you can pick her up on any untrustworthy behaviour.

In the meantime, you're no idiot. It's completely normal (in my world anyway) to have a mentor and to be open and trusting in that relationship. You've done nothing wrong, She, however, is a snake!

@EarringsandLipstick

but in that case she shouldn't have fucking let the OP tell her all her answers.

There are no answers! It's not secondary school!

An interview is multi-faceted, any organisation worth their salt will ask questions that probe the interviewee sufficiently to find out if they are a good fit.

Oh come off it. Two heads are better than one. Even a very experienced job applicant, who has done her own research on the post, is going to benefit from getting a second set of views on what the recruiters will be looking for.

And, if there was no advantage to Debbie, why didn't she just tell the OP that she was also applying? The only possible motive for keeping it quiet was that she hoped to gain from doing so.

We had a few Zoom calls, emails etc where she gave me some tips and advice on how to move into employers like her own.

This was your description of the mentor/mentee relationship. It's so slight as to be insignificant.

At various stages in my career, I've had mentoring. It was structured, regular & involved a lot more than this.

This was not really mentoring. It was some informal advice & chats.

she would have able to weigh up 'the other candidate' and play into this for her application.

I assume there was more than 2 candidates for this job.

I really, really doubt anything on OP's CV gave Debbie the edge.

I mentor people and it involves building up trust to create openness and get the best out of the arrangement. Although there isn't a formal code for mentoring, whatever training you have to do it will have trust and confidentiality at its heart.

If this was formal mentoring, she betrayed your trust, in that situation as a mentor I would have declared my interest in getting a new role, wished you the very best of luck and told you that obvs I couldn't look at your CV. She possibly used information you gave her (your application) to her advantage as unlike you, she would have able to weigh up 'the other candidate' and play into this for her application.

Although it sucks that she didn't need this job as much as you, personally, I could live with her getting it on merit if she hadn't snuck around.

It's a small world OP, I hope karma bites her in the ass and you end up as her boss someday. Then you can pick her up on any untrustworthy behaviour.

In the meantime, you're no idiot. It's completely normal (in my world anyway) to have a mentor and to be open and trusting in that relationship. You've done nothing wrong, She, however, is a snake!

Sorry all...double posting malfunction!

I don't think she was wrong to apply, but I do think it was quite unprofessional to decide to apply and then use the mentor role to gain the upper hand by looking through another applicant's application.

That is the sort of thing that sours professional relationships.

I think it's a lesson in choosing appropriate mentors/coaches. Having been both sides, a general rule I've found coaches more beneficial than mentors and that the best relationships are ones where the person coaching has enough distance from the coachees situation.

You'll have to chalk it up to experience and whatever you do, try to avoid falling into the pit of 'she didn't need the job so I deserved it more'.

Maybe they were looking at other softer unmentioned skills or she had additional qualities which could be utilised elsewhere in the company. You’re best just to let it go and be forward looking. What’s the point in getting chewed up about things

getting a second set of views on what the recruiters will be looking for.

Huh?

What 'second set of views'? She just saw OP's CV.

How is that a second set of views?

The post quoted referred to answers. There are no 'answers'. It's about matching your individual experience to the questions asked by the recruiting organisation. That's down to the candidate.

why didn't she just tell the OP that she was also applying?

Personally I would have.

But I know others who don't tell anyone at all when they apply for a job, including family.

She didn't have to.