friend got job she knew I wanted

[fcekinghell]

It may be my own stupid fault, lesson learned but anyway.

I have an industry mentor. Mentors were being offered to people in my field about 2 years ago and I put myself forward as a means to widen my network, find out about new opportunities etc, especially as I wasn't happy where I was at the time.

I got assigned to a woman I will call Debbie. We had a few Zoom calls, emails etc where she gave me some tips and advice on how to move into employers like her own.

For the record, I am more qualified and experienced than Debbie but wanted a mentor to help me into that kind of employer. Debbie told me to keep her posted on my job hunting. Offered to help with my CV and interview skills if I needed it.

Well I got made redundant in Covid. Debbie still working where she is. Then my dream job came up. I excitedly told Debbie, telling her its my dream job. I did the application and asked Debbie what she thought, was there anything missing. She told me it was 'perfect' and 'good luck'.

Well, I didn't get the job. They said they might recruit later in the year and they'll let me know. I've now heard that Debbie got the job.

It feels like a real kick in the stomach. She was my mentor. She knew this was my dream job and jobs like this don't come up often. In fact, really rarely. She knew I was unemployed whilst she was still working. Plus this job is asking for a particular skill which I do not believe she has.

DH and my DM are telling me I am a fucking idiot for speaking to her. I am aren't I? I probably gave her all the answers too!

I'm so upset

I think Debbie has been sneaky. She should have told you she was also applying and shouldn't have helped you with the app form as you were her direct competitor!

What has she said about it op now that you know?

Not a pleasant situation.

But they wanted her and not you.

It can be hard when you don't succeed in competition for a job.

But try not to complain. It never looks good and achieves nothing.

I think ethically Debbie should have told you she had gone for the job and shouldn't then have looked at your application. Even if I'd sent mine in, I would have flagged it at that stage. However that said, she's got the job on her own merits I assume. Sorry you're disappointed, understandably.

I've just changed my vote to YANBU, because you have now said the job was only advertised on the website of a not very well known company. It sounds like a terrible way to recruit but it makes it likely that she did find out about the job from you and didn't tell you.

I’m sorry you have been made redundant and that you find yourself in a difficult position but I think you are being very unreasonable in how you are reacting. It is perfectly possible she came across this opportunity on her own, even if she didn’t and she applied after hearing about it from you I don’t see that is a breach of ethics in any way. She supported you in your application and now you have leaped to she must have used information from it to make her own better and she has lied. That’s a huge leap and a serious accusation. I appreciate you must be under pressure but your response is to immediately say she doesn’t deserve it and must have lied.

You know, you might not have got the job even if she hadn't applied.

Debbie has been really underhand. She should absolutely have told you she was applying - especially as she is your mentor. I hope she doesn't mentor you in integrity or professionalism.........

Say nothing and wait for her to bring it up.

The lack of transparency about her own application is the main issue here. She shouldn’t be reviewing your application if she’s thinking of applying or has already done so. Conflict of interest and undermines her role as mentor.

How do you know Debbie didn't review the OPs application and then a few days or a week later look at the job advert again and decided to go for it?

Should she just sacrifice her own career because someone she new applied for it? Maybe she should have phoned the OP and asked permission before submitting her app? Or even put on her cv that she knew the OP and they should offer her the role as she'd applied first?

At the end of the day and application gets you through the door and the interview gets you the job. As the OP and Debbie both interviewed it suggests their applications were fine. The fact that Debbie was offered the job, despite being a mere shadow of the OP, suggests she outperformed the OP where it mattered.

Based on the content and tone of the OPs subsequent posts I'd be willing to wager a fair amount that her inflated ego/superior attitude shone through and didn't come across particularly well in the interview.

Looking at another applicant's application without telling them you're also in the hat, is off imo. Why not say? Not saying anything untoward has happened but I'd not be impressed and I wouldn't do it myself.
OP I had a (utterly humiliating at the time) job let down last summer, cried over it, then picked myself up and now I am very glad I didn't get it. Things can work out for the best.

It’s a conflict of interest and she shouldn’t have reviewed your CV.

But you cant’t be sure that she didn’t decide to apply until after she’d read it.

@jay55

You know, you might not have got the job even if she hadn't applied.

I don't think this is relevant, given the context.

@saraclara

I did the application and asked Debbie what she thought, was there anything missing. She told me it was 'perfect' and 'good luck'.

I think many posters have overlooked this. It's entirely unprofessional of her, as a mentor, to have done this. Not only was she being dishonest in not disclosing that she was applying for the same job, but she also could easily have seen something in the application that needed correcting, but not have mentioned it, or she could have used it to make her own better, and.

It's appalling behaviour, and if the mentoring programme is set up by the OP's employer, I would be reporting this. It's too late to do anything about Debbie, but they could ensure that when mentors are accepted into the programme, that they sign to agree that they will withdraw if a situation like this arises.

But the application was good enough to get the OP the first interview, so no glaring omissions or errors. What happened afterwards was nothing to do with Debbie, except that she interviewed better.

Tell her the answers??! Give over. In professional jobs CVS are by and large a mechanism to get you to interview. It’s there that the choice is made. And given that the OP has been easily able to check whether Debbie is registered with various bodies means that it is extremely unlikely she lied about it.

Honestly OP I get you’re gutted but honestly you weren’t owed that job. She offered you bland feedback and probably did apply afterwards. But you must realise that even if you’d never mentioned it if she’d have applied she would have beaten you.

The employer told me they wanted someone with the relevant qualifications and memberships so on the latter point she definitely lied.

so you were at the interview were you? You know what was said and what was behind the decision?

If you know what bodies she is a member or not... don't you think the employer can check just as easily as YOU can? You are honestly being ridiculous.

She reviewed your application -and you got to the final round of interviews. So I'm not seeing the problem.

I also think she has been underhand.

If she had seen the job first then she should have said no she shouldn't help you with your application, since she may also apply.

She shouldn't have reviewed your application and then applied yourself. In an interview situation you're supposed to all have a fair shot at interview. In my opinion if you see your main competition beforehand you can make sure you've covered off all your relative weaknesses etc and you can use it to your advantage.

If she didnt mention it at any stage then I'd assume that's what she has done. And it's not illegal, it's not against any rules, but I think its unethical - I wouldn't do it to anyone else because I don't think it's fair on them, I'd feel like it was a breach of trust.

I would play the long game here though. I'd call her and say congratulations, oh I didnt know you were going for the same job. And keep being polite and friendly. Hopefully the company will have another opening one day and they may ask her what she thinks of you...you dont want to tell her what a bitch you think she is and then find your career paths cross again in the future

Congratulate her - play nice and apply for the job she has vacated.

But you cant’t be sure that she didn’t decide to apply until after she’d read it.

exactly

or that she had applied already and it was too late to change anything anyway.

You know absolutely nothing but you are very quick to bitch about her and be very unprofessional about it.

Maybe she is a MN poster who thought she'd never got that job but was convinced on her thread to at least try... maybe you posted to tell her to go for it 😂

Debbie was wrong not to tell you she was going for it as your mentor.
they weren't wrong to hire her.

maybe Debbie will fuck up massively in her first week by being sneaky or accidentally having her waps out on zoom

People so keen on attacking "Debbie" and talking about unfair advantage...

you do know about things like likendin.

You might not know exactly who is applying for the same role, but especially in a niche industry, just picture being against the best one you can think about...it's not rocket science

Maybe she is a MN poster who thought she'd never got that job but was convinced on her thread to at least try... maybe you posted to tell her to go for it 😂

😂 Imagine if that were true!

Was the new job in the area you wanted to get into, that Debbie was in, or different? If it was different, maybe she didn't think if was that important as she was mentoring you for elsewhere. If it was the same area, she likely had industry knowledge.

Regardless, you do not have all the facts. You are adding your own narrative to fill the gaps. On top of that you are suggesting she mis represented herself, and that she was unethical. You then slandered her name to others in the industry. You don't believe she had the skills, you believe you do, but yet you needed this lesser skilled person to look at your application?

She got the job. Unless you think the interviewers are stupid they assessed her as the better candidate.

Be careful about bitching and burning bridges in a small industry. It will only work against you.

As others have said, Debbie might have applied after helping OP. The OPs application got her to interview fine, so no actual disservice done. It seems some are assuming Debbie might have copied the application, but for a professional role you would be giving examples of your own, very different work experience. Maybe Debbie could have said something, but I dislike the insinuation that Debbie cheated and that she somehow stole the job. It's awkward but not uncommon in niche work areas. The OP for whatever reason just wasn't the preferred candidate, as I stated before I really do wonder if attitude played a part.

Yes, Debbie might have been going to apply/have applied anyway, but in that case she shouldn't have fucking let the OP tell her all her answers. That is totally unethical

Debbie likely knew all the answers anyway, and go nothing at all from OP.

It's entirely likely that Debbie did as she was asked to do and did it ethically, and her goign for the job is unrelated to OP going for it.

Doesn't matter anyway, OP didn't get the job.

Is it just me that has a feeling that Debbie was headhunted and any other interviews were just a box-ticking formality?