Page 10 | friend got job she knew I wanted

EarringsandLipstick · 17/02/2021 21:04

If this was formal mentoring, she betrayed your trust,

It clearly was as far from formal mentoring as it's possible to get.

I still think she should have told her. But she (Debbie) didn't have to, and did nothing wrong.

OP's own inexperience & naïveté as well as a nasty approach to bad-mouthing someone else in her profession are what shine through here for me.

SurvivalIsInsufficient · 17/02/2021 21:06

For the love of God, of course Debbie was underhand. She should have told OP that she was applying for the same job

FGS, why should she? They aren't friends, they aren't colleagues. Debbie generously gave her time to mentor OP (who was never grateful and thought herself above Debbie the whole time), that doesn't mean she owes her anything at all, and certainly not to let her know her career plans!

EarringsandLipstick · 17/02/2021 21:07

@SurvivalIsInsufficient

For the love of God, of course Debbie was underhand. She should have told OP that she was applying for the same job

FGS, why should she? They aren't friends, they aren't colleagues. Debbie generously gave her time to mentor OP (who was never grateful and thought herself above Debbie the whole time), that doesn't mean she owes her anything at all, and certainly not to let her know her career plans!

@SurvivalIsInsufficient

Absolutely this.

Hotzenplotz · 17/02/2021 21:08

@fcekinghell

Thank you to the PPs

The main thing that's bothering me is that she could have said something and/or declined to help.

The second thing that's bothering me is that I'm very sure she found out about the job from me.

And then there is the fact I am more qualified and experienced. I was only using her as a mentor because her type of employer was something I was considering e.g I was in an LA employer and she was in HE doing a similar job. Now I'm unemployed and she's never been unemployed, she's just transitioned smoothly. She didn't need this job.

I'm sorry to hear that you lost out, OP. Been there and it's not nice.

However, it's not her problem.

Obimumkinobi · 17/02/2021 21:10

I wouldn't contact Debbie to either congratulate her or question her. I'd also write off working for this company whilst she's there because she's done a shit thing and she knows it! She won't be your advocate.
Can you imagine if she pops up on your next interview panel? She'll probably be looking through her notes of your previous mentoring sessions trying to find something you'll be weakest on!

And as for the suggestions about applying for for Debbie's old job?! Who wants the cast offs of someone who's shafted you?!

Good luck OP, I hope you find a job soon - an even better one!

truthisalie · 17/02/2021 21:12

You may sound bitter but who wouldn't in your situation. A lesson for the future.

SurvivalIsInsufficient · 17/02/2021 21:13

You may sound bitter but who wouldn't in your situation

Most of us wouldn't be in OP's situation, and if we were, would not be blaming our problems on someone else!

EarringsandLipstick · 17/02/2021 21:14

A lesson for the future.

But what's the lesson?

Not one around Debbie.

The only lesson for OP is to get proper feedback from the company & use it to move forward.

HelloThereMeHearties · 17/02/2021 21:15

I was only using her as a mentor because her type of employer was something I was considering e.g I was in an LA employer and she was in HE doing a similar job

So you were using her to get ahead, and now she's used you. So you're even!

tttigress · 17/02/2021 21:16

@fcekinghell

I'm trying not to be outing. I don't want to say what kind of job, qualifications etc we do. Its quite common in our field to have mentors of different qualifications and experience though.

And now I come to think of it, the mentoring was kind of mutual as she asked me a lot about my job and qualifications over the years and I gave her lots of useful links so she probably learned a lot from me that she could have used in her application, not just my application itself.

Have spoken to two other trusted people in our field about this (who haven't seen any of my applications lol), who reckon she's broken our industry code of conduct around confidentiality and ethics. Again I can't say too much about the industry or the code of conduct.

Curious to know what you business is? Surely anyone is allowed to apply for a particular job?

Osirus · 17/02/2021 21:19

@fcekinghell

should have added, I got all the way to the final stage interview for this job that she got. I am definitely very capable. Plus the employer is nothing like where she (or I) worked before so I don't believe where we previously worked played a factor either.

I don't know why she got it over me but she definitely does not have a key essential skill they asked for (and I do).

She may not have this skill you speak of, but she clearly has something that you don’t. She was given the job for a reason - she was the stronger candidate.

SixesAndEights · 17/02/2021 21:21

It's bad luck she got the job, but to those who are telling OP to get over it, Debbie has acted totally unprofessionally.

If she had applied for the job and OP said she was applying, Debbie should have shut down any discussion about it. If she only knew about it through OP even worse.

In both cases, the discussions they had about this job would have helped Debbie. As others have said, is there a body you can go to, or a code of conduct that she has obviously broken.

Sapho47 · 17/02/2021 21:21

@fcekinghell

It may be my own stupid fault, lesson learned but anyway.

I have an industry mentor. Mentors were being offered to people in my field about 2 years ago and I put myself forward as a means to widen my network, find out about new opportunities etc, especially as I wasn't happy where I was at the time.

I got assigned to a woman I will call Debbie. We had a few Zoom calls, emails etc where she gave me some tips and advice on how to move into employers like her own.

For the record, I am more qualified and experienced than Debbie but wanted a mentor to help me into that kind of employer. Debbie told me to keep her posted on my job hunting. Offered to help with my CV and interview skills if I needed it.

Well I got made redundant in Covid. Debbie still working where she is. Then my dream job came up. I excitedly told Debbie, telling her its my dream job. I did the application and asked Debbie what she thought, was there anything missing. She told me it was 'perfect' and 'good luck'.

Well, I didn't get the job. They said they might recruit later in the year and they'll let me know. I've now heard that Debbie got the job.

It feels like a real kick in the stomach. She was my mentor. She knew this was my dream job and jobs like this don't come up often. In fact, really rarely. She knew I was unemployed whilst she was still working. Plus this job is asking for a particular skill which I do not believe she has.

DH and my DM are telling me I am a fucking idiot for speaking to her. I am aren't I? I probably gave her all the answers too!

I'm so upset

She had probably already applied

SofiaMichelle · 17/02/2021 21:22

Well I considered myself quite worldly wise and I've worked at a senior level in more than one industry, but I've been left completely stumped by this one.

Being mentored by someone less experienced and less well qualified..?

That's a new one on me.

RomeoLikedCapuletGirls · 17/02/2021 21:24

OP, I would ask for feedback and I would ask them if Debbie declared to them that she was your mentor.

I seriously that if Debbie was posting here people would say that she was being unprofessional. At the very least she should have told you and declined to advise you.

Destinyknown · 17/02/2021 21:25

Were you told you were second choice then?

TheScurrilousFunge · 17/02/2021 21:27

I'm wondering if it's libraries and if you're a member of CILIP and she isn't.

In my experience, employers will say that CILIP membership or chartership is important, but they're happy to be flexible on that for the right candidate. If you found her on the organisation's website originally, it might be a simple process for her to rejoin, even if she let her member/chartership lapse. If it's not a legal requirement to do the job, I think that's probably what happened.

I'm sorry, OP, because I can understand why you feel hard done by, but equally, your application got you to interview, which was really all on you. She did better, even if only on the day. If I were you, I'd congratulate her and keep things on cordial terms, because you're never going to know one way or the other how she came across the job advert, and because if your industry is truly niche, you don't want to make a name for yourself as a sore loser.

HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee · 17/02/2021 21:28

I’m afraid you mistakenly feels this woman should have stepped aside for you
She doesn’t owe you anything nor has she done anything wrong
It’s not rough, she’s done nothing wrong. I’m afraid that now competitive interviews work

She was the candidate they chose
Don’t hold a gripe, don’t be mean spirited
Dust yourself down and good luck job hunting

Destinyknown · 17/02/2021 21:31

It's weird to have such a sense of entitlement.

EarringsandLipstick · 17/02/2021 21:32

I'm wondering if it's libraries and if you're a member of CILIP and she isn't.

In my experience, employers will say that CILIP membership or chartership is important, but they're happy to be flexible on that for the right candidate. If you found her on the organisation's website originally, it might be a simple process for her to rejoin, even if she let her member/chartership lapse. If it's not a legal requirement to do the job, I think that's probably what happened.

Well, if it is libraries, I'll double-down on what I said originally, as this is my field too (though in academia).

I agree re chartership etc but would repeat - it's absolutely not a question of rote knowledge. Such roles are competency-based around scenarios (I know this very well as both interviewee & interviewer) so for OP to imply an advantage gained by Debbie seeing her CV is nonsense.

WhoStoleMyCheese · 17/02/2021 21:32

I don’t know whether you’re using the term ‘mentor’ correctly OP. As far as I know a mentor is someone senior to you. If you were looking to break into a different industry and someone gave you tips they’d be a ... contact?
In any case Debbie was being unethical by not telling you that she had also applied. I’d steer clear of her. No matter what other posters say about ‘free and fair’ competition - business is built on trust and relationships! There are rules and then there are ethics..

billy1966 · 17/02/2021 21:33

Of course she has behaved shabbily by applying for a job you told her about, and went over your CV with.

It's a case of decency, but sadly YABU to expect any more from someone you knew only vaguely.

Don't say a word to her, you may well get a chance of another opportunity.

Send her a congratulatory email, there is nothing to be gained by displaying your upset.

Play the long game.

Unfortunately your mother and partner are correct, you shouldn't have said a word, this is not an uncommon occurrence as they are clearly aware.

Terribly, terribly upsetting for you OP.
Very disappointing.
So sorry.

HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee · 17/02/2021 21:34

There are rules and then there are ethics Yes and none have been broken
There is no code of rule that one has to stand aside for a work acquaintance
Debbie had no reason to not pursue a post,in case op got upset

CovidHalloween · 17/02/2021 21:35

Some people have the gift of the gob and lie their way through an interview to get the job but they don’t last in this new job, assuming that she’s not fit for this role as you say.
Having said that, my friend trained this junior girl in her office for at least year then the trainee girl was then promoted to be the trainer’s boss by the manager.
She was awful at her job ( in everyone else’s opinion at the office) but the boss liked her and for some reason kept her as she became part of the “in” group.

Scarlettpixie · 17/02/2021 21:38

Maybe it was her dream job too. The employer must have thought she was the best candidate. Thats how it goes sometimes. She did nothing wrong.