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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

friend got job she knew I wanted

833 replies

fcekinghell · 17/02/2021 17:39

It may be my own stupid fault, lesson learned but anyway.

I have an industry mentor. Mentors were being offered to people in my field about 2 years ago and I put myself forward as a means to widen my network, find out about new opportunities etc, especially as I wasn't happy where I was at the time.

I got assigned to a woman I will call Debbie. We had a few Zoom calls, emails etc where she gave me some tips and advice on how to move into employers like her own.

For the record, I am more qualified and experienced than Debbie but wanted a mentor to help me into that kind of employer. Debbie told me to keep her posted on my job hunting. Offered to help with my CV and interview skills if I needed it.

Well I got made redundant in Covid. Debbie still working where she is. Then my dream job came up. I excitedly told Debbie, telling her its my dream job. I did the application and asked Debbie what she thought, was there anything missing. She told me it was 'perfect' and 'good luck'.

Well, I didn't get the job. They said they might recruit later in the year and they'll let me know. I've now heard that Debbie got the job.

It feels like a real kick in the stomach. She was my mentor. She knew this was my dream job and jobs like this don't come up often. In fact, really rarely. She knew I was unemployed whilst she was still working. Plus this job is asking for a particular skill which I do not believe she has.

DH and my DM are telling me I am a fucking idiot for speaking to her. I am aren't I? I probably gave her all the answers too!

I'm so upset Sad Sad Angry Angry

OP posts:
Templetree · 19/02/2021 17:14

but on the facts we have it certainly seems reasonable for her to feel hard done by and allowed to vent a bit

Hard done by Confused
She didnt do well enough at an interview to get a job.
Someone else did ...

Its the she must be an evil, sneaky bitch/ I was robbed that people are responding to.
Nope she did better than you.
It happens 🤷‍♀️

Icenii · 19/02/2021 17:18

It's beyond me why anyone who is super skilled and experienced would want someone who they clearly believe is not skilled or experienced to look over their application in the first place. If she is so lacking, what value could she possible add?

Templetree · 19/02/2021 17:18

Also most people even those who have disagreed with the OP have given very good advice, to hang fire, not discredit Debbie etc as it would do the OP no good whatsoever and actually might be to the detriment of her career.
It would be a huge mistake to make and compound a horrible year.

SheCannaeTakeNoMoreCapt · 19/02/2021 17:23

It's beyond me why anyone who is super skilled and experienced would want someone who they clearly believe is not skilled or experienced to look over their application in the first place. If she is so lacking, what value could she possible add?

Exactly. This is the lack of logic I was talking about, the "I'm above her in every way but she was my mentor and I asked her for help and advice to get this job, even though I don't think she has any of the skills for the job and I do".
Er, what now? Why would you do that?

JanuaryJonez · 19/02/2021 17:24

I still absolutely believe that every singe person on this thread defending Debbie would have gone ballistic if they found themselves in the same situation.

They would not have been going "Oh well, let's chalk that down to experience then..."

No way Confused

LolaSmiles · 19/02/2021 17:33

I still absolutely believe that every singe person on this thread defending Debbie would have gone ballistic if they found themselves in the same situation
Not me.

I'd be annoyed on a personal level and make a note to reflect on mine and Debbie's relationship.

I wouldn't have been bitching to 2 colleagues about her getting a job in a niche industry (because that's a silly thing to do when it's a small world). I wouldn't have decided she only got the job because she saw my application, wouldn't have decided that she had lied about her qualifications, lied at interview, that I was so brilliant and was headhunted because I'm awesome and that the successful candidate was woefully under-qualified and lacked relevant experience. I'd not have been going on her LinkedIn after she got the job and arguing she's updated her profile with lies and suggesting the updates came from my CV.

Challenging the OP's ever creative conclusions is not the same as defending Debbie.

LeroyJenkinssss · 19/02/2021 17:39

Genuinely interested, if Debbie only thought to apply after reviewing OP application or got asked to, would it really be helpful to have told OP that she was going to apply? Because I don’t think I’d want to know - surely that would just add to the anxiety of the interview? Or that you’d scupper yourself by angling your answers to show that you’re better than Debbie but forgetting that Geoff also applied?

TheKeatingFive · 19/02/2021 17:52

Yes - why is OP necessarily wrong?

Well I don’t find the OPs version of events very convincing myself.

Unqualified Debbie, manages to blag her way to a job offer based on what she’s seen on the OPs CV, fooling a presumably qualified/experienced interview panel.

Pretty unlikely.

IWantT0BreakFree · 19/02/2021 17:53

YABU and hopefully once the disappointment of not getting the job subsides, you'll realise that Debbie has done nothing wrong and it just wasn't the role for you.

She would have been a fool not to apply for a job that was, by your own admission, a very rare and exciting opportunity in her industry, simply because she knows another applicant in a professional capacity. To be honest, even if you were close personal friends it's her career and her livelihood and she has every right (including morally) to apply for any job she wants. A good friend wouldn't expect someone to pass up a chance like that so that they could have a better shot themselves. You both had an equal opportunity to impress the employer and earn the job.

I also understand why Debbie didn't mention that she had applied. She was not obligated to do so and perhaps she (wisely) thought that there was no point running the risk of souring the friendship/working relationship when she may not have been offered the job. She also perhaps didn't feel like she wanted the possible confrontation of you feeling slighted or betrayed (which it turns out you do) when she's done nothing wrong. Maybe she just didn't feel like there was anything to gain by telling you and she didn't feel she needed your permission.

I hope your situation picks up soon. It's been a tough time for so many people and I can understand your frustration with things.

IWantT0BreakFree · 19/02/2021 17:58

I still absolutely believe that every singe person on this thread defending Debbie would have gone ballistic if they found themselves in the same situation.

DH works in a small industry and has several times found himself going up against friends or acquaintances for a promotion or new role. He doesn't tell anyone when he's applying for a job anymore, not so that he doesn't slip up and give them a tip-off or whatever, but because he recognises that everyone has the right to apply for any job they want, regardless of how they found out about it, and he doesn't want to put anyone in the awkward position of feeling that they should tell him they are also applying. Or not telling him and feeling bad about it. Basically, he's an adult and he knows that you don't expect friends or colleagues to stand aside and sideline their own career goals so that you can have less competition at interview. It's part of being a professional.

HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee · 19/02/2021 18:16

No, I am professionally qualified I understand recruitment and have experienced competitive job interviews
So absolutely no I’d not find myself in this situation

As an aside Mentoring is a specific work based relationship. Op and Debbie weren’t in a mentoring situation

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 19/02/2021 18:18

It's far more likely that Debbie got the job because she's actually in work and the OP isn't

I thought that too. It sounds like the OP is only going for certain jobs and most employers want to see a work ethic not large gaps of unemployment.

ScreamingBeans · 19/02/2021 18:23

I think there's some confusion where not validating the OP's conclusions equals admiring Debbie.

I think there's an equal amount of confusion where disapproving of Debbie's behaviour equals finding the OP's response reasonable.

Mittens030869 · 19/02/2021 18:34

@ScreamingBeans

Exactly. The OP's response clearly wasn't reasonable, she's in a dark place right now so she won't be seeing things clearly. But we can still be critical of Debbie not disclosing the fact that she was going for that job when the OP asked for her help.

It isn't necessary to be on either side in this!

Five67Eight · 19/02/2021 18:42

To all the people telling the OP to move on - she has!

She hasn’t been back to the thread since saying she was moving on.

Move on yourselves!

HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee · 19/02/2021 18:45

@Five67Eight, it’s a mn perennial. Op posts, hops off,thread continues in the op absence
If posts were to terminate when op departed mn would be mighty quiet as most threads involve an absentee op

Butterfly44 · 19/02/2021 18:50

I do a lot of interviewing. CVs/Job applications get to shortlisting based on meeting the JD/PS but the interview always clinches it regardless. If they asked same questions to everyone and were fair then the job goes to the person that answered these best and the tipping edge is who best fits in with the rest of team/company. I have employed people over someone else without a certain skill because I knew they would be great and would upskill quick. At decision time more things come into it than just skills.

HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee · 19/02/2021 18:56

Chemistry, fit with team are all considerations that come into play
Ps and JD will have essential and preferred experience . Debbie may have met all preferred experience thus fulfilled the criteria for the job

HelloThereMeHearties · 19/02/2021 19:06

[quote HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee]@Five67Eight, it’s a mn perennial. Op posts, hops off,thread continues in the op absence
If posts were to terminate when op departed mn would be mighty quiet as most threads involve an absentee op[/quote]
OP posts, the thread doesn't go as they were hoping, they don't get the validation they were after, they continue to read the thread (they can't resist) but not post...

HelloThereMeHearties · 19/02/2021 19:12

Anyway OP, if Debbie is a poorly-qualified for this job as you have repeatedly said she is, then no doubt in a few months they will be looking to replace her. Hang on in there!

Miranda15110 · 19/02/2021 19:22

I'd ask for feedback and work out what it is you need to work on.

Ijustknowitstimetogo · 19/02/2021 19:37

Debbie has done nothing wrong

I wouldn’t quite say that either.

It is unethical to look at someone’s job application knowing you’re applying for the same job without telling them.

At the very least Debbie should have offered to show OP her application in the interests of fairness. Why didn’t/ doesn’t Debbie show OP the application? After all isn’t OP meant to be learning from Debbie?

TheKeatingFive · 19/02/2021 19:44

After all isn’t OP meant to be learning from Debbie?

The terms of this mentoring scheme have not been clarified by the OP. Despite many questions.

She was, however, keen to establish that Debbie isn’t senior to her. So your question isn’t a given.

HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee · 19/02/2021 19:47

It is unethical to look at someone’s job application knowing you’re applying for the same job without telling them.
You’ve just made that up,there’s no such accepted ethical code
And frankly application get you shortlisted,interview gets you the job

It’s a nonsense to say having sight of a cv confers an advantage,it doesn’t

ElderMillennial · 19/02/2021 19:47

The thing is if she applied first, as others are saying, the moral thing for her to do would have been for her to tell you that she had applied / was applying as you might not have shown her your application form if she was.