friend got job she knew I wanted

[fcekinghell]

It may be my own stupid fault, lesson learned but anyway.

I have an industry mentor. Mentors were being offered to people in my field about 2 years ago and I put myself forward as a means to widen my network, find out about new opportunities etc, especially as I wasn't happy where I was at the time.

I got assigned to a woman I will call Debbie. We had a few Zoom calls, emails etc where she gave me some tips and advice on how to move into employers like her own.

For the record, I am more qualified and experienced than Debbie but wanted a mentor to help me into that kind of employer. Debbie told me to keep her posted on my job hunting. Offered to help with my CV and interview skills if I needed it.

Well I got made redundant in Covid. Debbie still working where she is. Then my dream job came up. I excitedly told Debbie, telling her its my dream job. I did the application and asked Debbie what she thought, was there anything missing. She told me it was 'perfect' and 'good luck'.

Well, I didn't get the job. They said they might recruit later in the year and they'll let me know. I've now heard that Debbie got the job.

It feels like a real kick in the stomach. She was my mentor. She knew this was my dream job and jobs like this don't come up often. In fact, really rarely. She knew I was unemployed whilst she was still working. Plus this job is asking for a particular skill which I do not believe she has.

DH and my DM are telling me I am a fucking idiot for speaking to her. I am aren't I? I probably gave her all the answers too!

I'm so upset

The number of people on this thread who admire Debbie is mindblowing and says a lot about themselves.

Yet people like Debbie seem to get on don’t they. Cunty behaviour though it may be.

Has anyone on this thread said they ‘admire’ Debbie?

I don’t think so 🤔

@Belladonna12 the OP isn’t even a reliable source for her own story because she is determined to be a victim and have Debbie be a villain instead of being mature and accepting that sometimes, you don’t win. It’s as simple as that.

Even if Debbie lied her way into the job, that doesn’t change the fact that she got it and OP didn’t.

So OP’s self-identified superiority didn’t secure her the position.

I can see you think you’re championing OP here but I don’t think you’re doing her any favours.

Fixating on this isn’t healthy. But you are encouraging that by insisting that OP is a wronged party. She’s not. She just didn’t get a job.

It's far more likely that Debbie got the job because she's actually in work and the OP isn't.

It’s tough but that is likely to be a big factor.

Has anyone on this thread said they ‘admire’ Debbie?
I don’t think so 🤔
Me neither.

I think there's some confusion where not validating the OP's conclusions equals admiring Debbie.

In reality there's so many factors that affect this situation, and the overwhelming area that jumps out is the OP's over-confidence in her ability to assess both her own and Debbie's professional capabilities, and her desire to push the evil Debbie narrative to the point that she is likely to miss out on any useful professional learning the process could bring.

Agree with that. Perhaps also Debbie lived nearer, and although it was supposed to be a wfh position the company may have wanted someone with flexibility.

I am also a bit at those stoutly defending Debbie. She may have been the most brilliant candidate ever, and of course what she did was not illegal, but she appears to have been alerted to a job about which she was otherwise unaware by the OP, seen her rival’s credentials, and put herself forward all without saying anything. Unsporting. But then some posters seem not to care a jot about decency. OP is a bitter loser and Debbie is a player.

IrmaFayLear
I don't think many posters are strongly supporting Debbie. It think many are trying to draw a distinction between professional vs personal ethics, and also being mindful that the OP seems to be drip drip dripping to gain support.

I think on a personal level Debbie should have said that she was applying, but wouldn't want to comment on a professional level because the OP has been suitably vague about the nature of the mentoring, the remit of the mentoring and seems to go between Debbie being a mentor who she spoke to a couple of times and Debbie being someone she confided in greatly and who was a friend.

A formal mentoring programme would usually have clear boundaries, it's usually time limited, usually the mentor has walked the walk that the mentee is walking, there's usually a seniority difference between mentors and mentees too. A professional mentor also wouldn't typically be involved in a mentee's personal issues. Mentors and mentees are also typically assigned because the mentor/mentee are a good match for whatever element of professional development the mentee has. Unless the OP clarifies the nature of the mentoring, nobody can comment on the professional side of things and the OP's reluctance to comment suggests it probably is less formal than she's choosing to suggest.

Between that and the OP deciding Debbie has stolen from her CV, only heard of the job through her, Debbie has lied during interview, has changed her LinkedIn to lie after getting the job, Debbie isn't appropriately qualified, Debbie doesn't have the required experience etc, it sounds like the OP is bitter and lacks professional reflection.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I feel you have been ill used. Her behaviour is unethical. She was your Mentor. She must have understood that mentoring you around the application process for a job she applied for is a conflict of interest. She should have been honest with you the moment it crossed her mind to apply and ceased the mentoring role. I have some sympathy for her dilemma - finding out about her dream job from her the person she was mentoring and if I was in her position I would ask my professional regulator for advice. At very least she should have told you and also disclosed to the employer that she had seen and given feedback on your application.
Bloody cow!

People saying this is about being on "team Debbie" or "team OP" are entirely missing the point. This isn't about personalities, allegiances and friendships - which tbh seems to have been one of the misapprehensions the OP was operating under.

Was Debbie a bit underhand in not mentioning her application to the OP? Probably. But this doesn't make her a "cow" or any of the other names chucked her way.
The boring facts are that both women applied for a job, both got through a few rounds of interviews, and Debbie was offered it. It may make the narrative more exciting to ascribe all sorts of emotional drama to this, but it's not helpful to the OP's ongoing job hunt.

Far more useful would be the OP graciously accepting she wasn't the best candidate, and taking it as a learning experience. But that takes self-awareness, and isn't half as easy as thinking she was "wronged" in some way.

YANBU!!

Anyone in your position would feel absolutely furious about this. I don't believe the posters on here saying you need to get over it are really being honest with themselves.

I do agree though with PPs who've said the interview was the key part and that her soft skills may have finally swayed them.

I was given some great advice last year from a contact who has a business coaching companies in how to win pitches. He was formerly very senior in a top ad agency. He said that, in his experience, across all industries, the decision to award a contract to one company over another is about 80% based on how well they got on with them, rather than what they were actually offering.

Like "how well can we work with these people?", "what will they be like to communicate with?", "will they understand what we want?", "how flexible and reasonable are they?" etc.

She did such a crappy thing, but my advice would be to keep your moral high ground and don't complain. Keep in touch with her employer and make it clear how enthusiastic you are about working for them. Hopefully you'll get in in the next round! After which there are all manner of ways you can get your own back!

If you lie on the CV or exaggerate it may get you an interview you otherwise wouldn't have got

You have zero evidence she did that. And that’s the crux of my point - she had enough to get the actual job front when interviewed, which strongly suggests she also would have had enough to get through the CV screening without needing to lie or take from other people (and I still don’t agree that seeing someone else’s CV is an advantage if you already know their history and broad skill set)

am also a bit hmm at those stoutly defending Debbie. She may have been the most brilliant candidate ever, and of course what she did was not illegal, but she appears to have been alerted to a job about which she was otherwise unaware by the OP, seen her rival’s credentials, and put herself forward all without saying anything. Unsporting

NO. This is what OP imagines happened, not what actually happened. Please try to grasp the difference. OP's account makes no logical sense and is incredibly biased.

I can't help think anyone taking OP's word as gospel is as daft as she is.

After which there are all manner of ways you can get your own back!

Well, to be honest, I am pretty sure that's already happening with this thread and talking to others about it. Except, that it won't be Debbie who will be shunned.

Let me just note, that I kind of agree about the situation not being great and that Debbie should have said something. However, considering how far OP got in a process, obviously the application wasn't sabotaged. Interviewers also aren't usually stupid enough not to realise some extreme sameness of applications with applicants in final stages of the process. Debbie got it. They liked her. That's it.
They just like her bit more than OP. As pp said, it doesn't mean OP did anything wrong, just Debbie did it bit better and OP could well be successful in future rounds.

However, that might not be a case if she is know as a gossip spreader, which this is btw. A gossip with a goal to dicredit someone.

I still think Debbie avoided telling the OP as she anticipated her reaction.
Out of interest OP what would you have done if she had told you?
Debbie might also have preferred her current employer not to be aware she was job hunting

Anyone in your position would feel absolutely furious about this. I don't believe the posters on here saying you need to get over it are really being honest with themselves

No, they wouldn't, and you need to think harder.

@SheCannaeTakeNoMoreCapt

NO. This is what OP imagines happened, not what actually happened.

And how would you know what ACTUALLY HAPPENED? Unless you were on the interviewing panel? 

You seem strangely obsessed with defending Debbie, the way you're insulting anyone who dares to disagree with you.

I still think Debbie avoided telling the OP as she anticipated her reaction

Quite possibly. Can you imagine donating your time to someone as an industry mentor who firmly believes that they are better than you at everything and you must be lying and cheating to get jobs? Good on Debbie for sticking with it for so long, she doesn't owe anymore than that!

And how would you know what ACTUALLY HAPPENED? Unless you were on the interviewing panel?

I don't. Same as OP. Same as you. But you could use logic and reason to see what is likely and what isn't.
I'm defending Debbie because so many people are bizarrely all for OP with no real reason to.

This is one of the few threads I wish would get picked up by a tabloid in the hopes that Debbie sees it and feels she should come and give us her side of the story

@SheCannaeTakeNoMoreCapt

Actually, most PPs seemed dead set on attacking the OP and defending Debbie initially. It's just become more 50/50 since then.

I'm not on either side tbh. I think Debbie should have given the OP a 'heads-up' that she was applying herself. But I agree that she didn't do anything wrong.

I don't think it's fair to call the OP 'daft'. She's clearly in a bad place mentally, after a very bad year, and isn't seeing things clearly as a result. So I don't think some PPs have done her any favours by calling Debbie a 'cow' and encouraging her to complain.

I think saying daft after being called cunty was fairly restrained actually

Yes - why is OP necessarily wrong? We don’t know that, any more than we know that Debbie is above reproach.

I don’t support any “revenge” action by OP - not at all - but on the facts we have it certainly seems reasonable for her to feel hard done by and allowed to vent a bit.

As for the “Debbie did nothing illegal” etc, would you condone someone going after your dh? Not illegal, is it? And they may have a better personality and be more attractive than you so really it’s fair game. Isn’t it? Or would you think it reasonable to pursue your friend’s dh? Same principle of behaving in a decent manner.

And that's easily covered by Debbie seeing OP's CV, later applying herself, and knowing full well having seen OP's CV made no difference of any kind and there was no conflict of interest. So she's addressed it quickly and effectively ensuring there was no detriment to OP.

Totally disagree, as do many on this thread.

Yes - why is OP necessarily wrong? We don’t know that, any more than we know that Debbie is above reproach

She's not. But on balance, based on her own words and actions, and using basic logic: it just doesn't add up. Newsflash: someone bitter about not getting a job lashing out at the person who did is not unheard of.

Some of the snarky messages rubbing salt in the wound of someone clearly down in spirits and on their luck are too much.

OP you're not being unreasonable to be upset. Not mentioning she had applied (or applying based on you drawing her attention to it) are poor form. You do need to move on for your own sake, and I would stop contact with Debbie!