friend got job she knew I wanted

[fcekinghell]

It may be my own stupid fault, lesson learned but anyway.

I have an industry mentor. Mentors were being offered to people in my field about 2 years ago and I put myself forward as a means to widen my network, find out about new opportunities etc, especially as I wasn't happy where I was at the time.

I got assigned to a woman I will call Debbie. We had a few Zoom calls, emails etc where she gave me some tips and advice on how to move into employers like her own.

For the record, I am more qualified and experienced than Debbie but wanted a mentor to help me into that kind of employer. Debbie told me to keep her posted on my job hunting. Offered to help with my CV and interview skills if I needed it.

Well I got made redundant in Covid. Debbie still working where she is. Then my dream job came up. I excitedly told Debbie, telling her its my dream job. I did the application and asked Debbie what she thought, was there anything missing. She told me it was 'perfect' and 'good luck'.

Well, I didn't get the job. They said they might recruit later in the year and they'll let me know. I've now heard that Debbie got the job.

It feels like a real kick in the stomach. She was my mentor. She knew this was my dream job and jobs like this don't come up often. In fact, really rarely. She knew I was unemployed whilst she was still working. Plus this job is asking for a particular skill which I do not believe she has.

DH and my DM are telling me I am a fucking idiot for speaking to her. I am aren't I? I probably gave her all the answers too!

I'm so upset

I understand your feelings OP, but in the end, the employer made the decision they considered best. You can’t win them all.

Debbie did however not disclose to you that she was applying for the same position, she is not the neutral party she has made herself out to be. Congratulate her, move on, but seek another mentor. I can’t see how you can place trust in her after this.

It sounds like you were her mentor in relation to this particular employment opportunity...unbeknownst to you, giving her application tips from her review of yours, giving her industry insider info & maybe even giving her the tip off about the job itself. I would be very annoyed that she did not disclose her interest to you. Also that apart from whatever else impressed at interview...maybe that she is in a mentor role (and for someone in that industry) was one factor...it can be a v valuable asset to management/HR to have someone willing to take on such a role for newcomers, juniors. I think you need to chalk it up. If the mentoring programme you joined was set up by an organisation, you might want to ask that they reinforce the message that where there are conflicts, that they must be disclosed & different mentor assigned.

I wouldn't bad mouth Debbie or burn bridges dramatically, not when she is now in your industry & you are looking for work ...but I'd keep a v healthy distance & my information nuggets to myself.

How did you find out she got the job? Presumably she didn't tell you. If she didn't...had you spoken since you got rejection letter & did she conceal her success from you as, if she did, that is shameful. Altho shameful she didn't tell you at the outset imo.

Good luck with the job hunt.

@EarringsandLipstick

I don't think it's fair to make out that Debbie knowing about OP's depression and anxiety has anything to do with anything. It's disappointing obviously what has happened to OP but it feels like Debbie is being morphed little by little into this evil, malicious backstabber with each new post and I doubt that's objective

Yes. Exactly.

OP has drip-fed entirely throughout this thread, changing her story as she's gone along.

I have plenty of sympathy with her after he difficult year she describes, and not getting the job.

I have much less sympathy for her frankly spiteful treatment of Debbie here (and IRL as she has talked to some friends about this) and her unwillingness to even acknowledge some valid points made by posters.

Exactly. And as much as I believe that someone of the feelings are a product of that bad year (which really sucked), lots of it just sound like a hurt ego. I also believe that this all is actually a some sort of anti Debbie campaign. In such a niche area, talking to two people about this means it will get to others. Many others. It can also, since it's so niche be identified in here.

One positive thing you could and should do, OP, is get some proper feedback from the interview- and be prepared to write it down so you can take it in and reflect on it later. This will be helpful if you get invited to interview for any of the current applications you have in.

I know you say you've already asked for feedback but, truthfully, it doesnt sound like you've listened to it, if all you've taken away is that you were "definitely the runner up."

So give them a call and ask them. Say you've been thinking about the interview, you have some more in the pipeline, and you'd really appreciate some feedback on how you could have presented your skills and expertise more widely.
Don't be defensive; don't name Debbie whatever you do, and don't talk about where you went "wrong." You probably didn't do anything wrong; it's just that she did slightly better.

So ask them what the successful candidate demonstrated that you didn't. Ask them about any areas in the essential and desirable criteria that you could've been stronger on. And ask them which of your STAR examples were good and which were weaker, so you know which ones to polish for next time.

They may be reticent at first, because giving honest feedback is hard (I've done it many, many times). But if you make it clear you're after a professional opinion, to help you in your next career move - and if you don't get over-emotional or defensive - you'll most likely learn something really helpful.

Good luck.

I agree with fellrunner85. Asking for honest feedback is a positive move forward.

But I do really sympathise with OP. Someone else getting the job, c’est la vie, but Debbie .... surely even the hardest “nothing illegal” posters can appreciate that there is something not quite decent about her applying for the job and not telling OP.

Upthread I likened the situation to a teenager telling a friend there was a job at the local CoOp that they were going to apply for and the friend hot footing it up there and getting the job first. A poster said there was nothing wrong with this! Surely says something about some people’s moral code...

I don't think it's fair to make out that Debbie knowing about OP's depression and anxiety has anything to do with anything. It's disappointing obviously what has happened to OP but it feels like Debbie is being morphed little by little into this evil, malicious backstabber with each new post and I doubt that's objective

I don't think Debbie is evil but she very probably took advantage of her position as mentor and used it OP's disadvantage. I don't think people insisting she has done nothing wrong our objective either . Many will be Debbies themselves .Rather than giving insisting that Debbie did nothing wrong and that OP failed at interview, perhaps posters should just sympathise. The lesson to learn is probably just that there are plenty of snakes out there and to play her cards closer to her chest in future.

I would report her. Sounds like she lied her way in from what you've said here.

Honestly I think that Debbie sounds like an absolute dishonest horror of a person but I don't think there's anything to be gained from trying to expose her as such. The OP has to focus back on herself and not on hating Debbie as it's unlikely that Debbie will get her comeuppance and it's very likely it will destroy the OP emotionally and possibly professionally.

'The best revenge is a life well lived' is extremely appropriate here.

@Belladonna12 but how exactly do you think Debbie used her position to the OPs disadvantage? I do quite a bit of recruitment and I can honestly say seeing another candidate's application wouldnt benefit anyone as they are specific to their owner. Unless you are suggesting that Debbie claimed some of the OP's skills and experience for her own - but she wouldnt need to, she could just invent stuff if she was inclined to lie.

@WildfirePonie that's excellent advice if the OP wants to ensure she is never offered a job by the company in question.

@fellrunner85

One positive thing you could and should do, OP, is get some proper feedback from the interview- and be prepared to write it down so you can take it in and reflect on it later. This will be helpful if you get invited to interview for any of the current applications you have in.

I know you say you've already asked for feedback but, truthfully, it doesnt sound like you've listened to it, if all you've taken away is that you were "definitely the runner up."

So give them a call and ask them. Say you've been thinking about the interview, you have some more in the pipeline, and you'd really appreciate some feedback on how you could have presented your skills and expertise more widely.
Don't be defensive; don't name Debbie whatever you do, and don't talk about where you went "wrong." You probably didn't do anything wrong; it's just that she did slightly better.

So ask them what the successful candidate demonstrated that you didn't. Ask them about any areas in the essential and desirable criteria that you could've been stronger on. And ask them which of your STAR examples were good and which were weaker, so you know which ones to polish for next time.

They may be reticent at first, because giving honest feedback is hard (I've done it many, many times). But if you make it clear you're after a professional opinion, to help you in your next career move - and if you don't get over-emotional or defensive - you'll most likely learn something really helpful.

Good luck.

This is excellent advice. Please dont badmouth Debbie or contact the company -this will go down VERY badly and could scupper your chances in a niche area. Im going to be honest here. I think Debbie might have kept it to herself because of how you might and have reacted.

If you can step back a bit and try to avoid the "victim of others" mentality.
It doesnt help and you get stuck in a "so unfair", anger and blame loop which is very unproductive.
All your anger, distress and emotions about what is a horribly stressful time are being pointed in one direction -at Debbie,which is scapegoating.
Head up and I agree with contacting them for feedback.
Say you are still very interested and would be happy to be contacted in the future.
Look at what would be the constructive way forward not the emotional and destructive way.

I would report her

To who?

People are distinguishing between Debbie not being a particularly nice person and Debbie breaking some kind of rule that the OP could legitimately make a complaint to someone about.

I personally don’t think she’s ‘done anything wrong’ on the latter criteria, unless there are specific guidelines in the mentoring programme that she’s broken. The OP has not been at all forthcoming about the nature of that programme.

And that would not impact the job situation in any way.

I don't think Debbie is evil but she very probably took advantage of her position as mentor and used it OP's disadvantage

She very probably didn't, as there was nothing about OP to advantage of!

Debbie was an employed industry professional who was asked to mentor OP. OP was an unemployed mentee who thought she was above said mentoring, who only wants to work from home and who badmouths people like Debbie to other colleagues.
Debbie sailed into the job OP wanted and OP is still unemployed.

Clearly Debbie has no need to "take advantage" of her unemployed mentee, she's already doing perfectly well on her own, and OP is not.

I note everyone saying Debbie took something from OP have not elucidated what they think that thing is, or what advantage they could have got from having seen OP's CV? Funny that.

I DO agree that if Debbie knew she applying for the job at that poijnt, she should have declined to look at the OPs CV. Morally that is.

However if she decided afterwards or was contacted afterwards and asked to apply, then it’s not clear to me she’s done anything ‘wrong’ morally. It would have been a nice thing to do to tell the OP in passing that this is what she was doing, but I don’t think she was obligated to.

@Belladonna12 but how exactly do you think Debbie used her position to the OPs disadvantage? I do quite a bit of recruitment and I can honestly say seeing another candidate's application wouldnt benefit anyone as they are specific to their owner. Unless you are suggesting that Debbie claimed some of the OP's skills and experience for her own - but she wouldnt need to, she could just invent stuff if she was inclined to lie.

I could easily use someone else's application for a job to improve my own . It would probably give me ideas for stretching the truth (if I wanted to do that). Maybe it wouldn't be possible in your line of work, but not every job is the same.

I could easily use someone else's application for a job to improve my own . It would probably give me ideas for stretching the truth (if I wanted to do that)

From an unemployed person you were mentoring? Why would you need anything from their application?

@SheCannaeTakeNoMoreCapt

I could easily use someone else's application for a job to improve my own . It would probably give me ideas for stretching the truth (if I wanted to do that)

From an unemployed person you were mentoring? Why would you need anything from their application?

So you think because OP is unemployed her application wouldn't have been useful? Nasty.

@FlyingByTheSeatof

Contact the company and explain to them what you've explained to us with evidence of the emails you and Debbie sent to each other and they can make up their own minds especially if she has copied your CV which the emails will timeline

No, really don’t do that

So you think because OP is unemployed her application wouldn't have been useful?hmm Nasty

I think, as I said, it shows that Debbie had no need for OP's CV or application. She's obviously ding perfectly well on her own. She's the mentor, OP is the mentee. Which one do you think is in a better position for a new job, an employed mentor, or an unemployed mentee? Let alone one wtih OP's attitude problem.

But the CV gets you in there. The fact that Debbie got the job based on her interview very much suggests that she would not have needed to take anything from another CV to get to the interview stage.

She should have told you she had also applied and there was a conflict of interest. It was unethical of her to look at your application without telling you she had also applied.

This is part of the ethical code from a coaching and mentoring organisation (EMCC). Reviewing a job application for a position the mentor was applying fir without telling the client has clear potential for conflicts of interest.

Members will be aware of the potential for conflicts of interest of either a commercial or personal nature arising through the working relationship and address them quickly and effectively in order to ensure that there is no detriment to the client or sponsor.

OP, you say you were contacted by the organisation about the job. It therefore wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that they also contacted Debbie.

The bottom line is that despite all of your superior knowledge and experience and memberships, she got the job. I agree with others that it may help you to ask for interview feedback.

Members will be aware of the potential for conflicts of interest of either a commercial or personal nature arising through the working relationship and address them quickly and effectively in order to ensure that there is no detriment to the client or sponsor

And that's easily covered by Debbie seeing OP's CV, later applying herself, and knowing full well having seen OP's CV made no difference of any kind and there was no conflict of interest. So she's addressed it quickly and effectively ensuring there was no detriment to OP.

Next objection?

@SheCannaeTakeNoMoreCapt

So you think because OP is unemployed her application wouldn't have been useful?hmm Nasty

I think, as I said, it shows that Debbie had no need for OP's CV or application. She's obviously ding perfectly well on her own. She's the mentor, OP is the mentee. Which one do you think is in a better position for a new job, an employed mentor, or an unemployed mentee? Let alone one wtih OP's attitude problem.

OP has explained that she is more qualified and experienced for this particular job than Debbie is. The mentoring was for moving into a slightly different line of work. Regarding OPs "attitude", how do you know that her view on being more experienced and having more qualifications than Debbie in this line of work is not correct? If she is correct I don't blame her for having an "attitude".

@SheCannaeTakeNoMoreCapt

Members will be aware of the potential for conflicts of interest of either a commercial or personal nature arising through the working relationship and address them quickly and effectively in order to ensure that there is no detriment to the client or sponsor

And that's easily covered by Debbie seeing OP's CV, later applying herself, and knowing full well having seen OP's CV made no difference of any kind and there was no conflict of interest. So she's addressed it quickly and effectively ensuring there was no detriment to OP.

Next objection?

If there was no conflict of interest why wouldn't she let OP know? That would have been the decent thing to do. The fact she said nothing suggests she knew that this wasn't fair.