friend got job she knew I wanted

[fcekinghell]

It may be my own stupid fault, lesson learned but anyway.

I have an industry mentor. Mentors were being offered to people in my field about 2 years ago and I put myself forward as a means to widen my network, find out about new opportunities etc, especially as I wasn't happy where I was at the time.

I got assigned to a woman I will call Debbie. We had a few Zoom calls, emails etc where she gave me some tips and advice on how to move into employers like her own.

For the record, I am more qualified and experienced than Debbie but wanted a mentor to help me into that kind of employer. Debbie told me to keep her posted on my job hunting. Offered to help with my CV and interview skills if I needed it.

Well I got made redundant in Covid. Debbie still working where she is. Then my dream job came up. I excitedly told Debbie, telling her its my dream job. I did the application and asked Debbie what she thought, was there anything missing. She told me it was 'perfect' and 'good luck'.

Well, I didn't get the job. They said they might recruit later in the year and they'll let me know. I've now heard that Debbie got the job.

It feels like a real kick in the stomach. She was my mentor. She knew this was my dream job and jobs like this don't come up often. In fact, really rarely. She knew I was unemployed whilst she was still working. Plus this job is asking for a particular skill which I do not believe she has.

DH and my DM are telling me I am a fucking idiot for speaking to her. I am aren't I? I probably gave her all the answers too!

I'm so upset

I can't see that there's no problem with that.

It depends on whether she knew she was going to apply at that point or not. If she did, then yes, she should have declined to review the CV.

However if she hadn’t heard of the job or wasn’t interested at that point and later changed her mind, I don’t think she was obliged to hold back because she’d seen the OPs CV.

I do maternity cover contracts, so had more interviews than hot dinners. They always go for personality fit as the deciding factor, arguing that a lacking skill can be taught or ' picked up' once in situ. I know that because several times I've been rung up & offered the role when the candidate whose personality fitted couldn't master the skill or knowledge they'd tried to train them in. Mentors aren't that great IME. Their motives are often looking good to senior management , not a genuine desire to help. I'd always rather find a friend to check my CV or introduce me to their mate with knowledge I need. Networking is just as good as a mentor if you do it right .

However if she hadn’t heard of the job or wasn’t interested at that point and later changed her mind, I don’t think she was obliged to hold back because she’d seen the OPs CV.

In which case, seeing the OP’s CV made her aware of the job, and gave her the means of improving on the OP’s application.

At which point, anyone with an ounce of decency - let alone someone who was mentoring that person - would get in touch to say, ‘hey, just to let you know, I’m going to apply for this job, too’.

People can defend Debbie all they want, but most reasonable people can see she has behaved in an underhand way.

And how hard is it to be even a bit kind to the OP?

She’s unemployed and has health issues. And she’s just lost out on a job that would have been perfect to her. To someone who was meant to be providing her with some guidance.

And everyone is giving her an absolute kicking. This place is fucked up at times. Or perhaps there are some really unhappy people who just have to ensure that everyone else is miserable, too.

In which case, seeing the OP’s CV made her aware of the job

No crime there. Perhaps the OP shouldn’t have shared it. It was a risk.

and gave her the means of improving on the OP’s application.

You can’t copy chunks of a CV. Especially when you’re going for the same job. Plus interview is the decider, not a CV.

And how hard is it to be even a bit kind to the OP?

I appreciate the OP had had a tough time, but her presentation on this thread is making it clear (to me at least) why she may not have been offered the job.

@Five67Eight

However if she hadn’t heard of the job or wasn’t interested at that point and later changed her mind, I don’t think she was obliged to hold back because she’d seen the OPs CV.

In which case, seeing the OP’s CV made her aware of the job, and gave her the means of improving on the OP’s application.

At which point, anyone with an ounce of decency - let alone someone who was mentoring that person - would get in touch to say, ‘hey, just to let you know, I’m going to apply for this job, too’.

People can defend Debbie all they want, but most reasonable people can see she has behaved in an underhand way.

And how hard is it to be even a bit kind to the OP?

She’s unemployed and has health issues. And she’s just lost out on a job that would have been perfect to her. To someone who was meant to be providing her with some guidance.

And everyone is giving her an absolute kicking. This place is fucked up at times. Or perhaps there are some really unhappy people who just have to ensure that everyone else is miserable, too.

☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽 all day long.

I'm so sorry you didn't get the job OP. The fact that she didn't mention it AT ALL or acknowledge it after the event indicates to me that she knows she has acted dishonestly.
You have no automatic right to that job, so ywbu to expect that she didn't apply. It's the fact she has obviously concealed it that doesn't sit right.

Best of luck in the job hunt

@Five67Eight

It's good to have someone else point out that the OP is in a bad place. She even spoke about being suicidal! So it's hardly surprising that she's reacting in a way that isn't totally proportionate.

This was the straw that broke the camel's back. She was desperate to get this job and is devastated not to have been successful. Hence why she isn't coping well with the disappointment.

thank you @Five67Eight I do have depression and anxiety, amongst other health conditions.

I don't tend to disclose this, especially not to employers but Debbie knew and it was one of the reasons she was my mentor, not just because she was in a particular type of employer I was considering as a career path.

So the fact she knew my vulnerability and mental health status makes it all the more confidence crushing. Plus as I said, we are meant to be in a psychology/counselling/coaching role ourselves.

I was in a bad place yesterday and you're right, I'm getting an absolute kicking. @SteveBrexit has been particularly horrible.

I've already said I've decided to keep my mouth shut and try to move on, especially as another job could come up with this employer. I applied for a few more jobs today. No salary listed - why do employers think its okay not to list salary? but that'll probably just generate more abuse and criticism so lets not go there shall we.

thank you too @Mittens030869

I need to try to get some sleep. I have been in the hospital today and again tomorrow. Flare up of one of my conditions. I think stress played a part. and no, that's not a drip feed nor does it mean Debbie was the better candidate cause of having better health or whatever people on here might say next.

Goodnight everyone.

I can see why it would sting, but its always the way when you work in the same niche industry as friends. Would you consider applying for her old job if it’s advertised?

OP Debbie's a disingenuous little shit to be fair. She took your prize because unbeknown to you it was her that was being mentored by you.
You're going to have to put it behind you whilst all the more wiser.
Keep your head up OP. Take it as a painful lesson and be professional. Debbie will meet her maker at some point.
Good luck 👍🏻

@TheKeatingFive

In which case, seeing the OP’s CV made her aware of the job

No crime there. Perhaps the OP shouldn’t have shared it. It was a risk.

and gave her the means of improving on the OP’s application.

You can’t copy chunks of a CV. Especially when you’re going for the same job. Plus interview is the decider, not a CV.

And how hard is it to be even a bit kind to the OP?

I appreciate the OP had had a tough time, but her presentation on this thread is making it clear (to me at least) why she may not have been offered the job.

I quite clearly did not say ‘copying’, Keating - I said ‘the means to improve upon’. It’s right there ^^ in bold. And Debbie absolutely did have this.

So the OP’s ‘presentation on this thread’ means empathy and a bit of gentle handling go out the window?

I’m not singling anyone out here - I just think this thread is next level ‘not in the spirit of the site’.

I’m not singling anyone out here - I just think this thread is next level ‘not in the spirit of the site’

Report it then.

I think the OP has reacted in a pretty immature way to not getting job that she somehow decided was ‘hers’ and wants this thread to make her feel better by whipping up against ‘Debbie’.

She’s had some downright terrible advice from people that I’m sure she sees as ‘on her side’.

She needs to accept that this wasn’t for her and move on. Perhaps reflect on what she can do better next time. Figure out the boundaries between friend and mentor. All of those will help her in the long run.

I acknowledge op has had a ghastly year,and job disappointment
However her perception & judgement is probably impaired
It all feels raw and she’s understandably blaming external factors eg Debbie,

Posters with platitudes and misplaced advice really are not helping op, this oooohh I know Debbie she’s a bad un
Friendship or Girl Code
Conflict of interest
Darkly suggesting it’s illegal.
It’s all utter nonsense and it doesn’t actually help op to keep her stuck in some Debbie drama

A great deal of people on this thread know v little about recruitment ,and interviews. As demonstrated by the indignant responses

I see an actual recruiter has posted, someone who knows what they’re talking about

fcekinghell

@SteveBrexit has been particularly horrible.

Why on earth do you need to single me out now?

I can't agree with bad-mouthing someone because she was better, making stuff up when you don't know any more than us what was said during the interview and what the decision was based on. I genuinely do not think it will do you any favour in the industry anyway. It's called bullying and it's neither professional nor acceptable.

I have enough experience in recruitment to know that being too stressed and too desperate for a job can really work against you, while someone more casual about it can perform a lot better. Sorry but that's my job.

The fact that you need to call me "horrible" because I disagree with you says it all.

Maybe Debbie had no intentions of applying and was contacted by the employer to apply, just like OP?

I don't think it's fair to make out that Debbie knowing about OP's depression and anxiety has anything to do with anything. It's disappointing obviously what has happened to OP but it feels like Debbie is being morphed little by little into this evil, malicious backstabber with each new post and I doubt that's objective

Contact the company and explain to them what you've explained to us with evidence of the emails you and Debbie sent to each other and they can make up their own minds especially if she has copied your CV which the emails will timeline

@FlyingByTheSeatof

Contact the company and explain to them what you've explained to us with evidence of the emails you and Debbie sent to each other and they can make up their own minds especially if she has copied your CV which the emails will timeline

I am the one being abused

but seriously, can you really imagine someone doing that in the real world and how that would look in front of an employer?

Can you for a second how that would reflect on the OP?

Contact the company and explain to them what you've explained to us with evidence of the emails you and Debbie sent to each other and they can make up their own minds

This is excellent advice. If you never want to work in your area ever again, that is.

And everyone is giving her an absolute kicking. This place is fucked up at times

@Five67Eight

That's absolute nonsense.

OP has got some very constructive advice (all of which she has ignored) as well as plenty of sympathy.

@FlyingByTheSeatof

Contact the company and explain to them what you've explained to us with evidence of the emails you and Debbie sent to each other and they can make up their own minds especially if she has copied your CV which the emails will timeline

Are you insane?

For the millionth time - OP & Debbie both got selected for interview.

That's what decided who got the job. Not the application. 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

Debbie performed better at interview than OP did. That's why she got the job.

I don't think it's fair to make out that Debbie knowing about OP's depression and anxiety has anything to do with anything. It's disappointing obviously what has happened to OP but it feels like Debbie is being morphed little by little into this evil, malicious backstabber with each new post and I doubt that's objective

Yes. Exactly.

OP has drip-fed entirely throughout this thread, changing her story as she's gone along.

I have plenty of sympathy with her after he difficult year she describes, and not getting the job.

I have much less sympathy for her frankly spiteful treatment of Debbie here (and IRL as she has talked to some friends about this) and her unwillingness to even acknowledge some valid points made by posters.

@winterinmadeira

I mean this nicely but you applied, got to the final stage (well done on achieving that as every job seems super competitive at the moment) but at the end of the day even if she hadn’t applied you may still not have got the job. We will never know but take away some learning and don’t tell anyone again.

This

Ask for interview feedback and use this to strengthen future applications

@fcekinghell

Debbie's old job is not anywhere near me (she moved for it) but we still connected online.

The job was advertised on the company's website and they are not a well known company. I'm not convinced she came by it herself. I honestly believe she found out from me.

She is a very capable person and has lots of skills but not that particular skill. I'm just saying that as a fact because the company takes great pains to promote itself as an employer that values that skill. So I do wonder if she was honest with the employer.

I know I sound bitter, I'm just really mad that she couldn't at least have SAID she was applying too and/or said she couldn't advise me?

she's not more qualified or experienced than me, she just had experience with a particular type of employer that I was thinking about moving into (and the job she's now gotten is nothing like that employer so our difference experiences is unlikely to have been a factor).

Bear in mind it's not uncommon for someone to be hired missing only 1/2 essential skills. Especially if the candidate can show how they are already working towards that & also has a host of other skills that the recruiting manager feels would be desirable & transferable

OP - please read and take note of fellrunner85s posts. She has nailed it and it is wise advice.

One other piece of advice I would give is that colleagues are not friends. This has stood me in good stead throughout my career. I have made strong and lasting friendships with some people I've worked with, but it is not the case that everyone you enjoy working with is a friend.

Good luck in your job hunt. I know from personal experience that it's particularly tough at the moment.

I find it quite common on MN for job applicants to decide one skillset/qualification is super important. This is also the skill set they happen to have themselves.

Whereas in real life, companies generally evaluate much more broadly and fit with team is a key factor.