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Original poster

friend got job she knew I wanted

833 replies

fcekinghell · 17/02/2021 17:39

It may be my own stupid fault, lesson learned but anyway.

I have an industry mentor. Mentors were being offered to people in my field about 2 years ago and I put myself forward as a means to widen my network, find out about new opportunities etc, especially as I wasn't happy where I was at the time.

I got assigned to a woman I will call Debbie. We had a few Zoom calls, emails etc where she gave me some tips and advice on how to move into employers like her own.

For the record, I am more qualified and experienced than Debbie but wanted a mentor to help me into that kind of employer. Debbie told me to keep her posted on my job hunting. Offered to help with my CV and interview skills if I needed it.

Well I got made redundant in Covid. Debbie still working where she is. Then my dream job came up. I excitedly told Debbie, telling her its my dream job. I did the application and asked Debbie what she thought, was there anything missing. She told me it was 'perfect' and 'good luck'.

Well, I didn't get the job. They said they might recruit later in the year and they'll let me know. I've now heard that Debbie got the job.

It feels like a real kick in the stomach. She was my mentor. She knew this was my dream job and jobs like this don't come up often. In fact, really rarely. She knew I was unemployed whilst she was still working. Plus this job is asking for a particular skill which I do not believe she has.

DH and my DM are telling me I am a fucking idiot for speaking to her. I am aren't I? I probably gave her all the answers too!

I'm so upset Sad Sad Angry Angry

OP posts:
Belladonna12 · 18/02/2021 16:24

@TheKeatingFive

The mentor wouldn't even had seen it if OP hadn't brought it to her attention

You don’t know that, but even if so, it’s not ‘wrong’

Furthermore she didn't tell OP that she intended to apply

Why was she obliged to?

She was obliged to tell OP that she intended to apply so that OP had the opportunity to not give her her CV and application to look over.
Belladonna12 · 18/02/2021 16:27

@fellrunner85

Don't be ridiculous. It wasn't just a case of OP seeing the job first and trying to "call" it. The mentor wouldn't even had seen it if OP hadn't brought it to her attention

You don't know this. The OP doesn't know this either. Debbie could've been headhunted; she could've seen it on LinkedIn or Indeed job alerts; she couldve found out about it in any number of ways. Particularly if this industry is as niche as the OP claims, in v which case it would be weirder if Debbie didn't know about it.

This is why work and friendship should be kept separate. The levels of presumption, assumption and emotion being ascribed to Debbie simply applying for a job and getting it are just weird.

If Debbie saw it elsewhere and intended to apply then she should have told OP rather than looking over her CV and application and taking advantage of her position as "mentor"
IrmaFayLear · 18/02/2021 16:28

No doubt Debbie did not - in cricket terminology - play with a straight bat.

But I can’t see what OP can do, apart from vent a bit (lot). If the mentoring scheme is official, then a complaint could be made - probably to little effect - but the OP would only look stupid if she contacted the actual place where the job was.

The complaint is really that Debbie took advantage of OP letting her know about the vacancy. The fact that Debbie then secured the job is nothing to do with OP. It’s frustrating in the extreme, but no grounds for a complaint.

TheKeatingFive · 18/02/2021 16:29

She was obliged to tell OP that she intended to apply so that OP had the opportunity to not give her her CV and application to look over.

Only if the mentor scheme had guidelines that stipulated that.

We don’t even know if it was a formalised arrangement.

Also, she may not have decided at that point to apply. I dont see why having see the OPs CV would mean she was obligated not to.

RedcurrantPuff · 18/02/2021 16:32

She sounds a bit shitty

Block her, move on and hope she is shite and gets sacked

TheKeatingFive · 18/02/2021 16:32

IF Debbie knew she was going to apply at the time of receiving the OP’s CV then she should have declared that yes.

But we don’t know the circumstances which influenced Debbie’s decision to apply.

PumpkinPieAlibi · 18/02/2021 16:32

I wouldn't review a friend's application if we were applying for the same job unless I disclosed that to them and they were okay with it. It just wouldn't sit well with me. Having said that, while what Debbie did may be morally dubious, I do not think it broke any Code of Ethics based on OP's description of the mentorship scheme...but I could be very wrong there as this mentorship arrangement sounds odd.

PumpkinPieAlibi · 18/02/2021 16:33

@TheKeatingFive said it better.

Belladonna12 · 18/02/2021 16:33

@TheKeatingFive

She was obliged to tell OP that she intended to apply so that OP had the opportunity to not give her her CV and application to look over.

Only if the mentor scheme had guidelines that stipulated that.

We don’t even know if it was a formalised arrangement.

Also, she may not have decided at that point to apply. I dont see why having see the OPs CV would mean she was obligated not to.

I meant she was morally obliged. There should be guidelines to stipulate this as it is clearly not obvious to some people and that is why I think OP should talk to whoever organises the scheme.
TheKeatingFive · 18/02/2021 16:34

that is why I think OP should talk to whoever organises the scheme.

Assuming it is a formal scheme. It may not be.

Belladonna12 · 18/02/2021 16:35

@TheKeatingFive

that is why I think OP should talk to whoever organises the scheme.

Assuming it is a formal scheme. It may not be.

Even if it's not formal I think OP should let the organiser know what has happened.
HelgaGPataki · 18/02/2021 17:06

Debbie is a total cow in my opinion. Judging by what you've said I can't believe for one second she had already found the job and decided to apply before you told her.
Of course she was entitled to apply, but it doesn't mean it was a nice thing to do or that she shouldn't have been honest about it.
I hope you're ok, that must have been horrible for you.

Maybe she didn't tell you because she's as shocked as you that she actually got it without having that skill?!

SheCannaeTakeNoMoreCapt · 18/02/2021 17:13

She was obliged to tell OP that she intended to apply so that OP had the opportunity to not give her her CV and application to look over

Not only was she not in any way obliged to do that, she might have had no intention at that point of applying and only decided later.

LolaSmiles · 18/02/2021 17:14

I would agree there's no point mentioning it to the employer but I think it should be brought up with whoever organises the mentoring because as it's not supposed to put the mentee at a disadvantage which it very possibly did in this case.
I'm inclined to agree, but the OP hasn't been clear on the nature and remit of the mentoring and that makes me a bit suspicious.

Taking everything at face value, it strikes me as an odd programme to have mentors formally mentoring people at the same level as them. It also seems odd that the mentoring would cover sharing job applications when those involved are peers in a field.Some organisations can be quite bad for confusing mentoring and coaching, but a good mentor really needs to have walked the walk that their mentee is undertaking, not be a peer. Equally, I'd have said that advising on job applications is probably something better done with someone senior in a field or someone where there is a coaching relationship.

Consequently I can't help but wonder if what the organisation is presenting as mentoring is actually an informal contact to broaden a network, and if the OP has taken the mentoring to mean someone working as a coach and professional advisor, hence the feeling of betrayal. But on the other hand she mentions that Debbie is a friend.

It sounds like blurred boundaries on many sides.

Rightly or wrongly, the impression I'm getting from the OP is that they think quite highly of themselves and that they might be liable to present the mentoring arrangement in a way that leads people to stick the boot into Debbie because that confirms the OP's belief that they were the rightful appointee.

purplecorkheart · 18/02/2021 17:29

She was your mentor so I am assuming she had more general experience than you. You say that she did not have the technical skill that you have but (a) do you know that for a fact or just judging that on the bases of her current job. (b) she may have applied before you or planned to. (c) she agreed to be your mentor not to give up great job opportunities because the person she is mentoring is going for it. Sorry while it is upsetting that you did not get the job she did nothing wrong.

Original poster
fcekinghell · 18/02/2021 17:32

with regards to the headhunting comments - the director contacted me directly and said to me "we really want you to apply" and told me where it would be advertised - on their website. They are a small charity.

My previous employer, pre redundancy was public sector and Debbie's previous employer was higher education. She was still employed there and her position has been filled already so I don't think there was a redundancy or contract situation there. The position she left was readvertised as permanent and full time anyway. Its too far away from me to have been suitable for me anyway.

I do not know if Debbie was head hunted.

Since my OP, Debbie's LinkedIn has been updated and is almost identical to mine now, including mention of skill she didn't have before (and I still don't think she has). She's suddenly an XYZ champion - something I've actually won awards for, she hasn't.

I'm not going to say or do anything or report her as I don't want damage my reputation or future prospects even though she has definitely broken the code of conduct. I'm just pissed off really.

OP posts:
IrmaFayLear · 18/02/2021 17:42

I can imagine you are, OP. If this was an informal “Debbie might be good to chat to” type of arrangement, then there’s not a lot you can do. She has been sneaky and although other pps have trumpeted that “she did nothing illegal” it’s still very much off. Just the same as if a teenager saw a Saturday vacancy in the Co Op and mentioned it to their friend, who charged up to the CoOp and got the job. It’s simply Not Decent.

SheCannaeTakeNoMoreCapt · 18/02/2021 17:43

Just the same as if a teenager saw a Saturday vacancy in the Co Op and mentioned it to their friend, who charged up to the CoOp and got the job. It’s simply Not Decent

Nothing wrong with that either. Some of you have very weird entitlement issues.

TheKeatingFive · 18/02/2021 17:44

even though she has definitely broken the code of conduct.

What code of conduct?

Are you going to clarify on the exact nature of the mentor scheme?

SheCannaeTakeNoMoreCapt · 18/02/2021 17:44

with regards to the headhunting comments - the director contacted me directly and said to me "we really want you to apply" and told me where it would be advertised - on their website

And yet Debbie still got the job over you. Your pride is hurt and you want it to be someone elses fault...but it isn't.

independentfriend · 18/02/2021 17:48

I think it's worth going back to whoever set up the mentoring arrangements and telling them what happened. Have a look at whatever mentoring agreements / contracts you're using and see if they cover this situation.

AFAICS the thing Debbie really did wrong here was fail to tell you she was applying for the same role. Either she's a morally dubious character taking advantage of you / there's some misunderstanding or she didn't know how to handle the siutation.

Can you arrange for an alternative mentor, less likely to be in direct competition with you? [Again, this should have been thought about when the mentoring programme was set up].

Washimal · 18/02/2021 17:51

she has definitely broken the code of conduct.

This makes no sense to me. What specific rule in your industry 'code of conduct' can you be sure she has broken? Surely there can't be a specific clause about applying for a job that a colleague or someone you are mentoring is interested in! That would be very odd.

fellrunner85 · 18/02/2021 17:51

OP, it doesn't look like you've read and taken in the really good advice you've had on this thread.

Debbie got this job because the panel thinks she's more suited to the role than you are. You can do two things with that information.

You can do what you're doing now; which is to bitterly insist she hasn't got the skills for the job; trawl her LinkedIn and assume she's copying your profile; and keep working on the theory you've somehow been wronged.

OR - you could put all thought of whether she should or shouldn't have applied for the job, or told you about it, out of your mind, and instead focus on what's important here. For whatever reason, she performed better than you did at interview despite apparently being less experienced. I can understand that grates. But turn it to your advantage. What does she have? Why did those skills impress the panel? And how can you demonstrate those skills yourself in your next interview?

If you were directly asked to apply, and then didn't get the job, this also underlines the fact that your interview skills need work. Which, to be blunt, I'm not surprised by, given the lack of self-awareness and critical thinking you're demonstrating on this thread.

fcekinghell · 18/02/2021 17:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Bluenightowl · 18/02/2021 17:54

Since my OP, Debbie's LinkedIn has been updated and is almost identical to mine now, including mention of skill she didn't have before (and I still don't think she has). She's suddenly an XYZ champion - something I've actually won awards for, she hasn't

She sounds a thoroughly unscrupulously character. Hopefully she is in over her depth and will be found out sooner than later. I feel pity for her new colleagues as it appears Debbie will end up taking the credit for their achievements and will whatever it takes to get ahead.