friend got job she knew I wanted

[fcekinghell]

It may be my own stupid fault, lesson learned but anyway.

I have an industry mentor. Mentors were being offered to people in my field about 2 years ago and I put myself forward as a means to widen my network, find out about new opportunities etc, especially as I wasn't happy where I was at the time.

I got assigned to a woman I will call Debbie. We had a few Zoom calls, emails etc where she gave me some tips and advice on how to move into employers like her own.

For the record, I am more qualified and experienced than Debbie but wanted a mentor to help me into that kind of employer. Debbie told me to keep her posted on my job hunting. Offered to help with my CV and interview skills if I needed it.

Well I got made redundant in Covid. Debbie still working where she is. Then my dream job came up. I excitedly told Debbie, telling her its my dream job. I did the application and asked Debbie what she thought, was there anything missing. She told me it was 'perfect' and 'good luck'.

Well, I didn't get the job. They said they might recruit later in the year and they'll let me know. I've now heard that Debbie got the job.

It feels like a real kick in the stomach. She was my mentor. She knew this was my dream job and jobs like this don't come up often. In fact, really rarely. She knew I was unemployed whilst she was still working. Plus this job is asking for a particular skill which I do not believe she has.

DH and my DM are telling me I am a fucking idiot for speaking to her. I am aren't I? I probably gave her all the answers too!

I'm so upset

There could be a discrimination issue in picking her over you

you can only be discriminated against on the basis of certain protected characteristics (sex, race, religion, disability....). On what basis do you suggest the OP was discriminated against?

@Kitewoman

There could be a discrimination issue in picking her over you

you can only be discriminated against on the basis of certain protected characteristics (sex, race, religion, disability....). On what basis do you suggest the OP was discriminated against?

thanks, I'm aware, that my field of expertise. The OP made reference to health conditions (and children but this is not a protected characteristic and since they're both women it cannot be sex discrim either). And I sais 'may'. It depends on many things of course.

Sorry I said 'could' not 'may' LOL slow morning day :) need that second cup of tea already I think.

thanks, I'm aware, that my field of expertise. The OP made reference to health conditions (and children but this is not a protected characteristic and since they're both women it cannot be sex discrim either). And I sais 'may'. It depends on many things of course.

It could for any job, but there's nothing to indicate that was the case here. It's unfair to give someone a glimmer of hope just because they're dissapointed and feel a job which wasn't there's has 'unfairly' gone to someone else. As a professional you should know that.

And here it is "the discrimination". It's recently on so many threads and in 90% just a shot in a dark which has basically no substance to it and often sounds plain ridiculous. Shame. It's a very serious issue in reality...

@Plutoh

thanks, I'm aware, that my field of expertise. The OP made reference to health conditions (and children but this is not a protected characteristic and since they're both women it cannot be sex discrim either). And I sais 'may'. It depends on many things of course.

It could for any job, but there's nothing to indicate that was the case here. It's unfair to give someone a glimmer of hope just because they're dissapointed and feel a job which wasn't there's has 'unfairly' gone to someone else. As a professional you should know that.

From what the OP has shared no I don't think there is no reason to think that. I think there are pointers suggesting it could be, based on the facts as we know them. But I am sure the OP can look that up herself and decide whether it would be worth exploring further (probably not if she wants to work for this employer/another close employer).

@SchrodingersImmigrant

And here it is "the discrimination". It's recently on so many threads and in 90% just a shot in a dark which has basically no substance to it and often sounds plain ridiculous. Shame. It's a very serious issue in reality...

I think that people encouraging OP to report to profession bodies/HR/The Pope/whoever are not doing OP any favours Debbie got the job and anything OP tries to do now will reflect badly on her even if Debbie gets the fall out as well. OP will not get this job now no matter what she does and that’s a real shame but she needs to move on and keep looking for a job. That’s not her job, never was.

I do have a PC actually but I do not think that played a factor in Debbie's behaviour.

It definitely does, however, when it comes to my job searching as people like Debbie have more chances of success than I do.

I think that people encouraging OP to report to profession bodies/HR/The Pope/whoever are not doing OP any favours
Debbie got the job and anything OP tries to do now will reflect badly on her even if Debbie gets the fall out as well. OP will not get this job now no matter what she does and that’s a real shame but she needs to move on and keep looking for a job. That’s not her job, never was.

I agree that when there is no point reporting to HR or a professional body. Whoever is organising the mentor scheme should probably know about it though as it sounds like things need to be tightened up so this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

I think that people encouraging OP to report to profession bodies/HR/The Pope/whoever are not doing OP any favours
Debbie got the job and anything OP tries to do now will reflect badly on her even if Debbie gets the fall out as well. OP will not get this job now no matter what she does and that’s a real shame but she needs to move on and keep looking for a job. That’s not her job, never was.

I agree that when there is no point reporting to HR or a professional body. Whoever is organising the mentor scheme should probably know about it though as it sounds like things need to be tightened up so this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

My only thought is that Debbie should have disclosed to you that she was applying for the same job. I think it’s wrong that she was able to look over your application while going for it herself. Sneaky!

It does sound like Debbie was ethically very much in the wrong

I'm so sorry OP. I think you've learnt a (very painful) lesson here. BUT Debbie is a dick, and I do think it will all come out in the end. I think you have two options:

1. You could try to let the employer of the new role know what happened. This will only really work if you have your correspondence in writing and she has actually broken ethical protocol.

Plus side of this you may get the job instead. Downside you may not get the job and they may think you sound bitter/hard work.

1. Accept Debbie has the role, and hope that further roles come up in the future and apply for those. She may be crap at the role because she may have twisted the truth in her interview...

Plus side: you remain squeaky clean and the bigger person in all respects Down side is another post may not come up.

I'd be tempted to do no.1 if these posts are so rare to come up...

OP, I deal with senior recruitment a lot, and all your posts have illustrated to me exactly why you didn't get the job.

You need to be thinking what Debbie has that you don't, and how you can work on that before your next interview, rather than focusing on your own assumptions about her experience compared to yours.

Plus side of this you may get the job instead.

Honestly, this is stupid advice. They’re not going to give her the job because she shops their chosen candidate.

There is so much the OP doesn’t know about how the team came to the decision they did. She risks looking like an utter tit going down this road.

If Debbie IS as terrible a fit for the job as the OP believes, it’ll come out in the wash eventually and she’ll get another crack at it.

There's absolutely no evidence to suggest Debbie had already applied for the job before reviewing the OPs application. In fact the OP was quite adamant that Debbie had no idea about the job until the OP had mentioned it to her.

In which case there'd be no conflict of interest. Debbie helped the OP with their application for a job she'd no idea about (and cleary Debbie's input didn't cause any problems as the OP got to the final interview) and then decided later she'd also like to apply to the post. Is she supposed to not apply for new opportunities because someone she knows is?

The OPs quite clear she only made contact with Debbie at the beginning to broaded her own career options by learning about Debbie's area of work. It's a bit two faced to have no issue gleaning as much information as you can from someone to help your career but then moaning that they learn about a job from you.

I certainly wouldn’t contact the employer - they would think the OP is nuts!

I feel for OP and the term “snake” which a pp used seems very apt for Debbie. It’s a salutary lesson in keeping one’s cards close to one’s chest.

However, they chose Debbie. On a banal level, it’s like confessing to a mate you fancy Dave. You talk all about Dave. You plot together to get Dave to ask you out. And then you find that your mate has snuck in there and is now going out with Dave. But, when all’s said and done, Dave preferred your mate. Tant pis.

It was fair game. You both had an interview and she came our top. Plus she’s not really a friend, she’s a mentor.

It was fair game

Are you routinely given fellow applicant’s application forms before you are interviewed?
It absolutely was not fair game. Give your head a wobble!

It's fair enough that she went for the same job as you and and got it. She obviously ticked more boxes than you. It doesn't seem very underhand that she looked at your application without telling you though. You were basically unknowingly showing your hand to the opposition, and I get that must hurt.

n which case there'd be no conflict of interest. Debbie helped the OP with their application for a job she'd no idea about (and cleary Debbie's input didn't cause any problems as the OP got to the final interview) and then decided later she'd also like to apply to the post. Is she supposed to not apply for new opportunities because someone she knows is?

Yes she shouldn't apply for new opportunities if she only knows about them because she is a mentor. She is not supposed to use information from her mentees to their disadvantage which is what happened in this case. Not only did she only hear about the job from the OP but she also probably use the CV. It's easier to improve upon someone's else's draft than to start from scratch. Her behaviour was very unethical.

I certainly wouldn’t contact the employer - they would think the OP is nuts!

Completely agree with this.

Those egging OP on, agreeing that Debbie is a "bitch" and making claims about "discrimination" etc are not helping by fueling the fire. OP has described her industry as being very niche, but she has already admitted to sounding off to a couple of colleagues about Debbie and will be lucky if this doesn't get back to her. If she goes round kicking up a fuss, making formal complaints, claiming that Debbie only found out about the job from her (she has no proof of this), used her application to improve her own (no proof of this either) and that she is more qualified and a better fit for the role than Debbie (this is OP's opinion, which was clearly not shared by the panel at interview) then she risks embarrassing herself and damaging her future prospects in the industry.

We have no idea why Debbie got the job and OP didn't. OP's assessment of her own skills and experience being far superior may or may not be accurate. There are a lot of inconsistencies and things that don't really add up but one thing that is very clear is OP's has had a difficult time and holding onto her anger at Debbie isn't going to do her any good. It also isn't going to help her secure another job as there are few things more off-putting to recruiters than when people come across as resentful of the success of others and unwilling to admit that they may have areas for improvement.

Not only did she only hear about the job from the OP but she also probably use the CV.

There is no evidence for this! These are things OP believes, not facts.

Not only did she only hear about the job from the OP but she also probably use the CV.

You don't know where she heard about the job (neither does OP) and its highly unlikely she used the CV of someone unemployed who she was mentoring. What use would it be to her?

I don't think some of you know how recruitment works. Debbie did nothing wrong here. OP, on the other hand....

@Belladonna12

n which case there'd be no conflict of interest. Debbie helped the OP with their application for a job she'd no idea about (and cleary Debbie's input didn't cause any problems as the OP got to the final interview) and then decided later she'd also like to apply to the post. Is she supposed to not apply for new opportunities because someone she knows is?

Yes she shouldn't apply for new opportunities if she only knows about them because she is a mentor. She is not supposed to use information from her mentees to their disadvantage which is what happened in this case. Not only did she only hear about the job from the OP but she also probably use the CV. It's easier to improve upon someone's else's draft than to start from scratch. Her behaviour was very unethical.

There is literally zero indication that Debbie used OPs CV, and it's unfair on OP to put them into her mind. Employers aren't stupid, they will know if a CV has been copied, plus, a lot is relating to previous jobs, I doubt Debbie copied those.

I've always been too trusting and and too nice. I do always try to see the good in people

Your posts very much suggest otherwise