friend got job she knew I wanted

[fcekinghell]

It may be my own stupid fault, lesson learned but anyway.

I have an industry mentor. Mentors were being offered to people in my field about 2 years ago and I put myself forward as a means to widen my network, find out about new opportunities etc, especially as I wasn't happy where I was at the time.

I got assigned to a woman I will call Debbie. We had a few Zoom calls, emails etc where she gave me some tips and advice on how to move into employers like her own.

For the record, I am more qualified and experienced than Debbie but wanted a mentor to help me into that kind of employer. Debbie told me to keep her posted on my job hunting. Offered to help with my CV and interview skills if I needed it.

Well I got made redundant in Covid. Debbie still working where she is. Then my dream job came up. I excitedly told Debbie, telling her its my dream job. I did the application and asked Debbie what she thought, was there anything missing. She told me it was 'perfect' and 'good luck'.

Well, I didn't get the job. They said they might recruit later in the year and they'll let me know. I've now heard that Debbie got the job.

It feels like a real kick in the stomach. She was my mentor. She knew this was my dream job and jobs like this don't come up often. In fact, really rarely. She knew I was unemployed whilst she was still working. Plus this job is asking for a particular skill which I do not believe she has.

DH and my DM are telling me I am a fucking idiot for speaking to her. I am aren't I? I probably gave her all the answers too!

I'm so upset

I can understand why your upset over what happened re Debbie applying for the same job as you. When you asked her to look at your CV or application form she should have told you she could not do this because she was applying for the same job.
I would contact the employer and ask for some feedback re the job your applied for and say if anything was to come up with them in the future you would be interested.
My feeling is that Debbie could have done a great interview but her employer might find out that she is not as good at the job as they thought. I have worked with people like this and given time they can and do fuck up. They will say or do the wrong thing or cause hassle with co workers and have the potential to become a bosses nightmare.
The reality for Debbie now is that she has to perform to a high level from day one of this job. She probably has to join a professional body and possibly catch up cpd courses. She has to get through a probation period also.
You might see the job she has now come up at some time in the future.
I know how you feel as I have been their regarding job rejections. Down the line I found out about the long hours, lack of bonuses, the horrible way staff were treated and more than once companies that rejected me had major staff culls and some closed permanently.
I know since covid came it caused a lot of problems for people but at least now vaccines are here and things will improve.
Sometimes things happen for a reason and you can't see why at the time but in time you realise that your in a better position than you ever thought.
Good luck with the job hunting and be very careful who you tell in the future about your plans.

@fcekinghell I think you both sounded professional, but you probably feel hurt so you’re misreading her message.

Op, are you 100% sure that the job vacancy was only listed on the company website? The vacancy might have appeared elsewhere on a job site? If not, then more likely then not “Debbie” probably did come across the vacancy after hearing about it from you.

Having said that, aside from not disclosing that she has applied for the same vacancy or told you after viewing your application, in which she should not have reviewed your CV/application, I don’t know what else she’s done wrong. Someone upthread mentioned that “Debbie” could have disclosed that she was mentoring you which will make the interviewer/future employer think she might be somehow better than you if you were mentored by someone not as qualified or experienced as you. Do you think that that can be a remote possibility?

Do be careful because in a niche field word does spread. This can impact you in a profound way so do maintain a professional persona and now you’ve disclosed this matter to two people, and they’ve sympathised so do not speak of it further to anyone else unless they’re a trusted friend who is not part of your chosen field of work and will never work in that sort of field. Also, whilst they might have sympathized about the code of conduct etc, you don’t want to come across as bitter and entitled.

For some reason, it doesn’t effect men as much but when a woman has a lot of knowledge, relevant experience and qualifications etc, it is not always seen as confidence because usually for a woman it is misinterpreted as reeking of entitlement and evokes a a general feeling that you are looking down on others.

Another thing that I’d like to point out is that you are convinced that she has less experience than you or not as many qualifications, but she’s received tips from you and you’ve also sent her helpful links etc over the years. Maybe that also helped her? She might not be as unqualified/inexperienced as you think? It also shows that she’s willing to learn skills and gain qualifications in her own free time for her professional development. Moreover, she might be on a lower end of the pay scale if she doesn’t meet the full criteria which could be an incentive for a prospective employer.

Perhaps, seeing your application may have given her an edge so she could amp up her strengths and any weaknesses on your application/CV, she could use that to her advantage and show how she possesses xyz that you might lack. This might not be lying, some people blag do get a job and then they’re quickly found out in the probationary period or they learn quickly on the job. It’s precisely why she should not have reviewed your application, even if it was just a cursory glance.

@Andylion

*Yes it is, and if she had any decency she should have disclosed to you that she was interested too and took a step back from reviewing your application, as it’s a big conflict. I think the replies on here are very harsh.*

I agree with this.

This with bells on!

Well it’s obvious she’s a)lied about her qualifications b) used your application and improved on it for her own c) thrown you under the bus by saying she’s your mentor

Lodge a complaint with their HR. You have an industry code of conduct. Isn’t it wise to let them know they have a dishonest staff member? If it was me I’d say that you feel she’s been dishonest and breached confidentiality. She shouldn’t have reviewed your application and given advice on it if she was applying for the same role. It’s pretty shitty behaviour. Let them know!

I didn't sleep too well.
I've always been too trusting and and too nice. I do always try to see the good in people. So this experience really threw me.
Yesterday I was so mad and hurt, it just all came out as a big rant here on Mumsnet as its anonymous here.
Last year was so horrible, it left me suicidal. Covid bereavements, horrible job, health problems, then redundancy.
I confided all of that in her and her role was not just to help me explore other potential jobs / career paths, but to build my confidence.
I really wanted something home based as I do not want to work in a bitchy office environment again. There aren't many home based roles in our industry. In fact this is the only one I've seen in a long time!
If she's no longer a member of our professional body, I can't really report her. Her new employer may not be happy if she's not and maybe I could alert them, but what would be in it for me really?
All I can really do is learn from the experience and continue job searching and keep my mouth shut in future about my job search.

I’m really sorry @fcekinghell - that all sounds shit.

Posting on here when you’re genuinely upset about something is rarely a good idea.

I hope you haven’t been too upset by some of these uninsightful posts, from people deliberately not getting it. I feel if you had his conversation with real people in real life, you’d’ve had a much kinder response.

While Debbie is under no obligation to tell you what jobs she has applied for, she was unprofessional to review your application while applying for the same role.

Either Debbie lied about her skills and experience, which will come out soon enough if the skill was so key to the role that it couldn't be done without it, or she had something else they wanted.

I wonder is there a way to alert professional bodies re the job and that the employer has recruited someone not on their list? I recruit on a regular basis and if that requirement was an essential on the job description she has lied. She should not have been shortlisted. Or another query to HR re the essential criteria? Or is membership something she could do now and 'rejoin'. Very annoying for you but something better is just around the corner

The employer will be able to check if she's registered, especially if it's with CILIP as speculated. Perhaps when they interviewed they realised they were happy to forgo the requirement, she won't have been able to lie and them now know.

Sorry for all you have been through recently OP, I hope things look up soon for you. As painful as it is, I think it's best to move on, reporting or whatever won't do you any favours.

@Sapho47

Unless Debbie sabotaged the ops cv though she doesn't have any ability to influence the outcome

For people saying stuff like this...I really don't get it. In a redundancy pool situation- where I knew all the other applicants I was able to say e.g. "I started at the bottom and worked my way up to manager which means I know how things really work at every level of the department" - knowing that other applicants had come in at management level. Knowing the competition and in Debbie's case how they have approached applying for the role gives you the opportunity to spell out why you have what they have and more or to deal with where they've got something e.g. 'others may have more years of experience in x, but the two years I have spent doing x have provided a lifetime of experience due to the volume of cases I've dealt with'. Interviewers compare one candidate against the other. Influencing the interviewer that you are better than the other is is how you get the job!

'While Debbie is under no obligation to tell you what jobs she has applied for, she was unprofessional to review your application while applying for the same role'

^ This. Not sure if there's anything you can do about it but she should have at least advised you that she was going for the post and given you the chance to seek another mentor.

Have you contacted her to tell her how her actions have made you feel?

@Kinder123

I'd be amazed if there were only 2 applicants or interviewees for the role. So your point absolutely fails to stand up.

[quote EarringsandLipstick]@Kinder123

I'd be amazed if there were only 2 applicants or interviewees for the role. So your point absolutely fails to stand up. [/quote]
Except the OP told us that as far as she is aware she was the runner up.

Sorry..posted too soon!

...so Debbie was able to play all this in against the main competitor in what was likely to be a small field anyway.

At the moment the harsh comments to OP just reflect badly those posters.

I don't think so @BoomBoomsCousin

Venting is one thing. And I've said I do have sympathy for OP.

However, OP has clearly misrepresented the situation & has changed her story throughout. She lacks awareness of the recruitment & interviewing process. She is writing in a way that (in my view, for the avoidance of doubt) reflects poorly on her - accusing Debbie of lying, of gaining some advantage in the process, of being a bitch.

To me, that's more than venting her understandable disappointment and upset.

I see OP has had a tough year on a number of fronts & I'm sorry to hear that. I hope it improves soon.

Except the OP told us that as far as she is aware she was the runner up.

Yes, she has. I find that quite extraordinary. In my field, and extensive experience, this is not shared. Instead, you'd be told you were deemed appointable (which means you'd be in the top 3 - 5 of candidates).

However, it does still mean that Debbie had to out-perform other candidates whose CVs she hadn't seen, meaning your point doesn't hold.

I do think the ethical thing to do would have been for Debbie to advise that she was also applying for the same role and maybe, decline the opportunity to review the application.

But beyond that, I really don't think she did anything wrong.

This. She certainly doesn’t ‘owe’ the OP to the tune of giving up her own shot at the job.

If Debbie got offered it, it’s probably because she was the standout candidate at interview.

Bide your time. Keep your mouth shut. Was the mentoring service an organised scheme..? There's certainly an ethical issue here.

@EarringsandLipstick

At the moment the harsh comments to OP just reflect badly those posters.

I don't think so @BoomBoomsCousin

Venting is one thing. And I've said I do have sympathy for OP.

However, OP has clearly misrepresented the situation & has changed her story throughout. She lacks awareness of the recruitment & interviewing process. She is writing in a way that (in my view, for the avoidance of doubt) reflects poorly on her - accusing Debbie of lying, of gaining some advantage in the process, of being a bitch.

To me, that's more than venting her understandable disappointment and upset.

I see OP has had a tough year on a number of fronts & I'm sorry to hear that. I hope it improves soon.

Yes, this

Truthfully, Debbie just sounds like a bit of a dick.

However, regardless of what you may think, the employer thought she was the best person for the job. If they had placed the same weight on all these extra things that you have and she doesn’t, they would’ve picked you. I don’t say this to bring you down, it’s just the reality of the situation. And I think you need to just accept and come to terms with the fact that she got the job, it’s done, now time to move on and find something new.

Everything happens for a reason - this job wasn’t the right one for you, and convincing yourself that you’re better than her, and they should’ve hired you instead, is just prolonging the disappointment. I know in your head you feel like this was THE JOB - your dream job - but surely you’re old enough at this point to know that things aren’t always all they’re cracked up to be. There’s absolutely no guarantee this would’ve been your dream job, there’s just as much chance you’d have joined and absolutely hated it, as may she, so with respect.....it’s time to let go.

The perfect job for you is out there, but the longer you spend obsessing over this situation the longer it’ll take for you to focus your energy on finding something else.

Oh, and don’t report Debbie, you will only feel worse if you do. It won’t help you get the job and you’ll be ruining her career in the process, which in turn will make you just as bad as her.

@HappyHallie

When recruiting for a small team I have, and have known others to, choose to give the job to an applicant who was second best technically but who we felt would get on better with the team.

So there's one of the many reasons they could have chosen her instead of you.

Yes, we have done exactly the same.

@fcekinghell

I didn't sleep too well. I've always been too trusting and and too nice. I do always try to see the good in people. So this experience really threw me. Yesterday I was so mad and hurt, it just all came out as a big rant here on Mumsnet as its anonymous here. Last year was so horrible, it left me suicidal. Covid bereavements, horrible job, health problems, then redundancy. I confided all of that in her and her role was not just to help me explore other potential jobs / career paths, but to build my confidence. I really wanted something home based as I do not want to work in a bitchy office environment again. There aren't many home based roles in our industry. In fact this is the only one I've seen in a long time! If she's no longer a member of our professional body, I can't really report her. Her new employer may not be happy if she's not and maybe I could alert them, but what would be in it for me really? All I can really do is learn from the experience and continue job searching and keep my mouth shut in future about my job search.

In your shoes I'd report anyway. She may re-join in the future. Its tricky. There could be a discrimination issue in picking her over you but it's v difficult to prove and would damage your relationship with an employer you may want to work for in the future so probably not worth it. She has definitely acted unethically. Just bide your time. She may be out of that job in a couple of months if she proves not suitable in the end.

I don't blame you for being upset. Debbie sounds like a real snake. Not only did she know about the job via you but she probably used what you told her to get it. I have a colleague who would do this sort of thing. She acts like she's trying to be helpful but really her intention is to use anything you tell her to her advantage. The people who think her actions were okay have probably no experience of this kind of person or they act the same way. I think the only thing to do is learn from this experience and in future keep quiet about any potential jobs you have seen. Never show your CV to anyone who might be your competitor.

That's really shitty OP and I don't blame you for feeling really hurt and upset!

Whilst she had as much right to apply for a job as everyone else, it's pretty underhand to look through your application without even saying anything. That's not ok in my book.
I don't think rocking the boat would do any good though, so just put it down to experience and the right job will come along eventually. Good luck

@30mph

Bide your time. Keep your mouth shut. Was the mentoring service an organised scheme..? There's certainly an ethical issue here.

I agree. I would report this as at the very least she should have told OP she was applying for the job. She had done that OP probably wouldn't have shared further information. The mentor took advantage and that may always have been her intention.