Non-binary pronouns change for my daughter

[Dollyplum]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and after searching, couldn't find any past threads for this.

My daughter now identifies as non-binary and has changed her name to reflect her new identity. She is now asking us to use they/them pronouns and tbh, we're really struggling with this. We don't have any issues with her wanting to be the person she wants to be, but I can't quite explain why we find the pronouns so hard to come to terms with. I guess from an old fashioned perspective, they/them is plural, and we have known her for nearly 14 years as a girl.

Can anyone give me some advice on how to handle this please? Are we just being stubborn? Should be change the pronouns? The name change was welcomed with open arms by our whole family and she is definitely happier that everyone has settled into this without issue. We have changed her name at school, dentist, etc. to her preferred name.

I'm sure other parents here have been through the same thing and any advice would be welcome please. Thank you so much :-) x

In my day the 'in thing' was to be a vegetarian.

My dad said to me once that every generation has some key thing it's looking for: equality/peace/love/freedom/security - and currently, identity. Although each generation gives it a different name it really amounts to the same thing, which is finding a way to navigate thru life while being true to our values - an incredibly difficult thing to do!

I don't blame younger ppl for wanting that at all, but you can't just ignore other people's needs and beliefs in the process.

Drama much? If a 19-year old can't handle a little sarcasm then we really are raising a generation of snowflakes. And the 'situation' I'm referring to is children demanding that people use alternative pronouns when it's really no one's place to decide what pronouns people use to refer to them.

Impatiens exactly. Everyone has to learn at some point that people are not there to validate our feelings at the expense of their own beliefs and dignity.

@Impatiens

My dad said to me once that every generation has some key thing it's looking for: equality/peace/love/freedom/security - and currently, identity. Although each generation gives it a different name it really amounts to the same thing, which is finding a way to navigate thru life while being true to our values - an incredibly difficult thing to do!

I don't blame younger ppl for wanting that at all, but you can't just ignore other people's needs and beliefs in the process.

It's absolutely true. Hippies, Punks, New Romantics, Goths, Emos... every generation has had one or more 'movement' based around young people and how they view the world. Most of them come to a similar realisation as they get older, it's just all a load of bollocks and we just carry on until we pop our clogs. Try not to cringe to hard at the memories.

If any proof is needed of this, let us not forget the 'why can't we just all love and get along' hippy generation became the much detested Baby Boomers we 'hate' now .

What I don't understand about changing pronouns to they/them is what difference it will actually make in life in general.

People will see people of either sex and see what sex they are. What difference does a pronoun make?

I don't mean to be goady if anyone reads it like that but I honestly don't get it.

I can see why and if you work solely on email and never see or speak to anyone because yes women are still disadvantaged in the work place (gender pay gap etc) but for situations aside from work and in reality how does it make a difference?

What I don't understand about changing pronouns to they/them is what difference it will actually make in life in general. People will see people of either sex and see what sex they are. What difference does a pronoun make? I don't mean to be goady if anyone reads it like that but I honestly don't get it. I can see why and if you work solely on email and never see or speak to anyone because yes women are still disadvantaged in the work place (gender pay gap etc) but for situations aside from work and in reality how does it make a difference?

I guess it's a way of controlling the way people talk about you... But I don't understand it either. It seems narcissistic to me.

Yes Brum, explains why we now we have multi-billionaires like Jack Murphy of twitter adopting the look and jargon of second-wave hippies while behaving like Big Brother!

@IAmFleshIAmBone

Drama much? If a 19-year old can't handle a little sarcasm then we really are raising a generation of snowflakes. And the 'situation' I'm referring to is children demanding that people use alternative pronouns when it's really no one's place to decide what pronouns people use to refer to them.

But it's someones place to decide whether someone else uses pronouns?

Odd entitled thinking .

*But it's someones place to decide whether someone else uses pronouns?

Odd entitled thinking .*

We don't use our own pronouns. Unless we're talking about ourself in the 3rd person. I think the odd entitlement comes from the narcissists who would like to control the words others use.

@IAmFleshIAmBone

*But it's someones place to decide whether someone else uses pronouns?

Odd entitled thinking .*

We don't use our own pronouns. Unless we're talking about ourself in the 3rd person. I think the odd entitlement comes from the narcissists who would like to control the words others use.

So young people struggling with gender identities are narcissists, and people who have no reason to not use the words other than their own personal belief on something that doesn't actually affect them are....? Wow.

@IAmFleshIAmBone

What I don't understand about changing pronouns to they/them is what difference it will actually make in life in general. People will see people of either sex and see what sex they are. What difference does a pronoun make? I don't mean to be goady if anyone reads it like that but I honestly don't get it. I can see why and if you work solely on email and never see or speak to anyone because yes women are still disadvantaged in the work place (gender pay gap etc) but for situations aside from work and in reality how does it make a difference?

I guess it's a way of controlling the way people talk about you... But I don't understand it either. It seems narcissistic to me.

No. It is not a way of controlling anything or anyone.

Narcissists think of everyone as objects.

Young people struggling with their gender don't.

Since when does anyone talk to someone in the 3rd person. I would just say no because I do not speak in the 3rd person to anyone so I will address you by name as I do anyone else.

Yes, I believe that people who whish to control others' language when referring to them have narcissistic tendencies. Too much time spent on social media doesn't help, and I don't blame young people for that, but it really isn't good for their developing personalities.

You're essentially saying that one individual's personal belief trumps the other's. It doesn't. Learning early on that not everyone is going to pander to your faith-based ideologies is a good thing.

Insisting that someone uses specific pronouns to talk ABOUT you not TO you is extremely controlling. It also smacks of western privilege. Like I said, I don't blame young people for this but it's our responsibility as adults to teach them that it isn't appropriate 🤷🏻‍♀️

What I don't understand about changing pronouns to they/them is what difference it will actually make in life in general. People will see people of either sex and see what sex they are. What difference does a pronoun make?

This is the crux of it. Even if everyone agreed to use 'neutral' pronouns all the time it isn't going to change how society sees you. Sure, it's worth a try if it helps a confused teenager in the short-term but it can only happen where everyone's happy to do that.

It's clear that many young people are very confused about gender ideology when someone defending it can say, as @begaydocrime did, i myself am a masculine woman but she/her pronouns are still what i'm happiest with. Some people who use they/them will still express themselves very masculine/very feminine, some express more androgynous

By 2021 I'd have thought we would be long past the old-fashioned ideas that some behaviours/looks are 'masculine' and some 'feminine' yet here's a 19 year-old saying exactly that.

People will see people of either sex and see what sex they are. What difference does a pronoun make?

The people who go in for this kind of thing don't believe that sex is something you just "see" though. They think that if you look at someone and conclude that they are girl because of boobs, body shape, etc when they are in fact a boy/non-binary then you are a close-minded old fuddy-duddy. And if they tell you that they're a boy/non-binary and you refuse to accept this and keep referring to them as a girl then you are a terrible person and a bigot.

OP, my suggestion would be not to use pronouns at all, but your DDs name.

Whenever this conversation comes up my nan's voice rings in my ear "Whos she? The cat's mother?"

I think thats why if feels so jarring for so many, when you're in conversation with someone you use their name or you, as in "Hello Dolly do you want a cup of tea?" I only use she / he / they about a person never to a person, but even then I'd more likely refer to them by their name.

I agree with @peak2021 just stick to using your daughter's name in her presence, easier all round.

Good luck, parenting is hard

@IAmFleshIAmBone

Yes, I believe that people who whish to control others' language when referring to them have narcissistic tendencies. Too much time spent on social media doesn't help, and I don't blame young people for that, but it really isn't good for their developing personalities.

You're essentially saying that one individual's personal belief trumps the other's. It doesn't. Learning early on that not everyone is going to pander to your faith-based ideologies is a good thing.

I'm not sure you really understand what a narcissist is.

That aside , I'm not saying that at all (although if I was , again why does that mean we shouldn't use them? You not wanting to use them and not believing in it, and they want you to use it, who wins out? Life would be just lots of people wandering around not able to interact.)

It's not a faith based ideology. But that aside, a parent should respect their child's wishes. That's pretty basic.

Telling a child you won't respect their wishes or pander to them is all well and good but I'd be interested to see the outcome of their relationship in later life.

@NotDavidTennant

People will see people of either sex and see what sex they are. What difference does a pronoun make?

The people who go in for this kind of thing don't believe that sex is something you just "see" though. They think that if you look at someone and conclude that they are girl because of boobs, body shape, etc when they are in fact a boy/non-binary then you are a close-minded old fuddy-duddy. And if they tell you that they're a boy/non-binary and you refuse to accept this and keep referring to them as a girl then you are a terrible person and a bigot.

Firstly there's a difference between sex and gender.

But yes, if you refer to someone who is non binary as a she I'm afraid that would make you a bigot.

But yes, if you refer to someone who is non binary as a she I'm afraid that would make you a bigot

This kind of ridiculous intolerance is why most ordinary people can't get on board with gender ideology. Most people haven't got a clue what 'non-binary' is supposed to mean, even a lot of the people who claim to be non-binary can't explain it. So why should people who don't understand or accept the concept be labelled as 'bigot'?

@Impatiens

But yes, if you refer to someone who is non binary as a she I'm afraid that would make you a bigot

This kind of ridiculous intolerance is why most ordinary people can't get on board with gender ideology. Most people haven't got a clue what 'non-binary' is supposed to mean, even a lot of the people who claim to be non-binary can't explain it. So why should people who don't understand or accept the concept be labelled as 'bigot'?

Plus its not actually true

If the non binary person is happy to be called she/he then it would obviously be fine

One of my children’s friends identifies as non binary but has kept the pronouns he/him

I’m certainly not telling my child to refer to him as ‘they’ if thats not what he wants!

If you force someone to use they because you feel none binary , what assumptions are you making about everyone else in the world?

That they accept the gender identity you just gave them?

You saying
Treat me different please not according to my sex means you accept that people should normally be treated differently because of their sex ( in none medical /biological ways because you still need San pro )

@Impatiens

But yes, if you refer to someone who is non binary as a she I'm afraid that would make you a bigot

This kind of ridiculous intolerance is why most ordinary people can't get on board with gender ideology. Most people haven't got a clue what 'non-binary' is supposed to mean, even a lot of the people who claim to be non-binary can't explain it. So why should people who don't understand or accept the concept be labelled as 'bigot'?

'most ordinary people'.

Nice.

Weirdly enough in the world outside MN, I would find that more people are respectful of it and would never dream of saying in a public setting that it's faith based or made up and nonsense or pandering or anything like that.

I can't think of many people I know with those opinions.

I would say your ordinary people are far more on the other side.