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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Non-binary pronouns change for my daughter

894 replies

Dollyplum · 16/02/2021 16:30

Hi everyone, I'm new here and after searching, couldn't find any past threads for this.

My daughter now identifies as non-binary and has changed her name to reflect her new identity. She is now asking us to use they/them pronouns and tbh, we're really struggling with this. We don't have any issues with her wanting to be the person she wants to be, but I can't quite explain why we find the pronouns so hard to come to terms with. I guess from an old fashioned perspective, they/them is plural, and we have known her for nearly 14 years as a girl.

Can anyone give me some advice on how to handle this please? Are we just being stubborn? Should be change the pronouns? The name change was welcomed with open arms by our whole family and she is definitely happier that everyone has settled into this without issue. We have changed her name at school, dentist, etc. to her preferred name.

I'm sure other parents here have been through the same thing and any advice would be welcome please. Thank you so much :-) x

OP posts:
Impatiens · 18/02/2021 23:21

If you read the two posts I quoted it should help you understand better.

RootyT00t · 18/02/2021 23:34

@Impatiens

If you read the two posts I quoted it should help you understand better.
I did read them.

I just noticed you chose two that suggested it's possible to support them without using the pronouns rather than the several which gave advice on getting used to the pronouns, and that's what I disagree with.

Impatiens · 18/02/2021 23:41

Your agreement or disagreement is irrelevant - the important thing is to show parents that there isn't one set way of approaching the issue, different parents/children will find different ways to navigate it. That's much more in the spirit of being supportive as HQ requested.

Those two posts are clear about the reasons parents might make a certain choice and that's why I quoted them.

RootyT00t · 19/02/2021 00:07

@Impatiens

Your agreement or disagreement is irrelevant - the important thing is to show parents that there isn't one set way of approaching the issue, different parents/children will find different ways to navigate it. That's much more in the spirit of being supportive as HQ requested.

Those two posts are clear about the reasons parents might make a certain choice and that's why I quoted them.

Right.

Still not sure that using posts which aren't actually supportive is being supportive , but ..

Impatiens · 19/02/2021 00:47

They are supportive in their own way. The parent made it clear that they didn't want to compromise their own important beliefs so they discussed it. That's very important.

Mockolate · 19/02/2021 00:56

@Impatiens

They are supportive in their own way. The parent made it clear that they didn't want to compromise their own important beliefs so they discussed it. That's very important.
How is it supportive to tell your child that you won't accept their pronouns because of your own important beliefs?
midgedude · 19/02/2021 07:32

If it's important to accept a pronoun , then it implies pronouns are important, in which cases it will be equally important to reject them

ShulamithFirestone · 19/02/2021 07:59

If my very thin daughter came to me and said, "Mum, I'm fat", I would say "You're not. Let's get you some therapy" - because the alternative would mean anorexia/infertility - that would make me a good mother.

If the same daughter came to me and said "Mum, I'm a boy," I would say "You're not. Let's get you some therapy" - because the alternative would mean puberty blockers and infertility - that would make me a bigot and a transphobe.

Is that right?

WaltzinBetty · 19/02/2021 08:02

Still not sure that using posts which aren't actually supportive is being supportive , but ..

@RootyT00t
So you've decided that the lived experience of a parent who has shared their own successful way of navigating this issue is not supportive?

Who made you the thread police and the expert in what is and is not supportive? Surely sharing successful techniques from parents who have navigated this issue is exactly what this thread should be about, and is just what the OP asked for.

You're clearly a very black-and-white thinker and keen to try and police and judge others, but MN have made it clear that this thread should be supportive and relevant to the OP and requested to keep the inter-personal debate down - yet here you are starting it up again by challenging others posters and trying to control the thread again.

Please respect the parents that have shared their experiences rather than dismissing them as unsupportive because you personally don't like their way of successfully navigating this issue. It's not your role to judge what posts you deem to be supportive or not and to criticise others. You are not the authority on this issue.

Your behaviour is not supportive of the OP and not helpful

ShulamithFirestone · 19/02/2021 08:11

Sorry to double post, but MNHQ's response further up the thread referring to women's very valid concerns as "having a barney" is incredibly flippant and disrespectful.

IAmFleshIAmBone · 19/02/2021 08:25

It might be an idea to teach your daughter that the concept of choosing one's own pronouns and demanding that others go along with it is pretty narcissistic. Maybe a better preparation for growing up would be to demonstrate to her that it's not up to others to validate her feelings.

shoedogpk · 19/02/2021 08:30

@lemonss

Imagine you are writing an email about someone who had a gender neutral name. You didn't know if they are make or female. You don't want to offend anyone so you would be cautious so

I am writing to you about Sam, they have asked me to do x, I will speak to them on Tuesday and ask them to complete y.

It's just practice

But, you do know the sex of your own child. Hence it's not the same thing
shoedogpk · 19/02/2021 08:32

@Skysblue

This is about power. She’s probably never had power over her parents before and I expect this is all making her feel rather superior. She can now tell you off / accuse you of being transphobic etc if you make what according to her is a mistake. But it’s really all about power, as controlling language usually is.

I wouldn’t call my child ‘their’ when that’s grammatically incorrect, if she really wants to be nonbinary then the grammatically correct term is ‘it.’

Neither would I humour that child or acknowledge a biological female as anything other than a biological female.

You may be right but pushing against a teen in such an aggressive fashion wouldn't end well I imagine
StiffLittleFingerrs · 19/02/2021 08:34

@WaltzinBetty

Still not sure that using posts which aren't actually supportive is being supportive , but ..

@RootyT00t
So you've decided that the lived experience of a parent who has shared their own successful way of navigating this issue is not supportive?

Who made you the thread police and the expert in what is and is not supportive? Surely sharing successful techniques from parents who have navigated this issue is exactly what this thread should be about, and is just what the OP asked for.

You're clearly a very black-and-white thinker and keen to try and police and judge others, but MN have made it clear that this thread should be supportive and relevant to the OP and requested to keep the inter-personal debate down - yet here you are starting it up again by challenging others posters and trying to control the thread again.

Please respect the parents that have shared their experiences rather than dismissing them as unsupportive because you personally don't like their way of successfully navigating this issue. It's not your role to judge what posts you deem to be supportive or not and to criticise others. You are not the authority on this issue.

Your behaviour is not supportive of the OP and not helpful

How do you know that it's been successful? They may grow into adults who never speak to their parents because they didn't accept who they were and belittled them.
Dozycuntlaters · 19/02/2021 08:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

CovidLockdownmustend · 19/02/2021 08:40

Many teens doubt themselves during puberty.
They are open to manipulation and vulnerable.
Using sex as what they are born as and then gender as how they currently feel is non threatening and fluid.
There is a growth in individuals saying that they are non binary. Is it because they feel more free to explore than we ever did, a trend or something else. I don't know. However, a calm non judgemental approach works best.

shoedogpk · 19/02/2021 08:41

[quote RootyT00t]@BrumBoo

Mmm.

I'll stick to not comparing trans and non binary, thanks. For many valid reasons. That might not fit your agenda but we will need to struggle on regardless.[/quote]
Here

Non-binary pronouns change for my daughter
IAmFleshIAmBone · 19/02/2021 08:42

The vast majority of people would fall under the category of 'non-binary', so much so that it is rendered meaningless. I don't even know what being completely 'binary' would look like. Fingers crossed she grows out of it fast 🤞

RootyT00t · 19/02/2021 08:45

@WaltzinBetty

Still not sure that using posts which aren't actually supportive is being supportive , but ..

@RootyT00t
So you've decided that the lived experience of a parent who has shared their own successful way of navigating this issue is not supportive?

Who made you the thread police and the expert in what is and is not supportive? Surely sharing successful techniques from parents who have navigated this issue is exactly what this thread should be about, and is just what the OP asked for.

You're clearly a very black-and-white thinker and keen to try and police and judge others, but MN have made it clear that this thread should be supportive and relevant to the OP and requested to keep the inter-personal debate down - yet here you are starting it up again by challenging others posters and trying to control the thread again.

Please respect the parents that have shared their experiences rather than dismissing them as unsupportive because you personally don't like their way of successfully navigating this issue. It's not your role to judge what posts you deem to be supportive or not and to criticise others. You are not the authority on this issue.

Your behaviour is not supportive of the OP and not helpful

I'm pretty sure they asked us to stop the intra personal battles, waltzing.

I'm not trying to control or police anything, or challenge anything.

OP asked for advice using the pronouns. I don't personally think that posts or resource sites which 'support' the child without using the pronouns is respectful or supportive (and don't think I don't see it's another way of prolonging the agenda).

Nothing wrong with that. I think the pronouns should be used, and there were lots of posts helping with navigating this.

And to answer your question, I'm not dismissing the lived experience of one parent. But that doesn't make it a broad representation.

I see the faux concern is back. As if you were worried about helping the OP.

Thanks for your fourth input of my posts to other posters when I asked you to desist attacking me though.

RootyT00t · 19/02/2021 08:47

@shoedogpk

I can see that.
Doesn't mean I agree it's comparable but that's just my opinion.

RootyT00t · 19/02/2021 08:48

@Impatiens

They are supportive in their own way. The parent made it clear that they didn't want to compromise their own important beliefs so they discussed it. That's very important.
I don't agree that that's supportive, Impatiens. And we have no idea the impact that will have on the parent and child long term.

Just my opinion though. It's a complicated issue and we know that.

RootyT00t · 19/02/2021 08:51

@Dozycuntlaters

I just don't understand this non binary thing at all. Biologically we are either male or female, why is that a problem? I'm sure you DD is going through a phase to be cool and will hopefully move onto something else soon. I'm not sure I would pander to this. Fair enough if she resents a different name but the rest of it.... I'm really not sure.

I think these days we are all so desperate to be PC and seen as moving with the times it's got beyond silly. Your DD is female and no amount of changing grammar as to not offend her will change that.

Gender is not biological.

@midgedude , what we were talking about earlier - why we can't just have everyone as non binary. Case in point.

WaltzingBetty · 19/02/2021 09:25

4 quoted/tagged posts in a row...

Great to see that no ones focussed on continuing interpersonal debating...

Impatiens · 19/02/2021 09:36

@ShulamithFirestone

Sorry to double post, but MNHQ's response further up the thread referring to women's very valid concerns as "having a barney" is incredibly flippant and disrespectful.
Missed that post but I completely agree with you, the comment is uncalled-for. This issue needs to have light shone on it, this is AIBU.

The OP asked if she/he was BU to struggle with the use of pronouns, many posts sympathise with that, others dismiss their concern so arguments ensue.

Unfortunately when ppl are goaded it can be hard not to respond in kind and it can come across as childish and trivial. The actual issue is very far from trivial.

RootyT00t · 19/02/2021 09:39

@WaltzingBetty

4 quoted/tagged posts in a row...

Great to see that no ones focussed on continuing interpersonal debating...

If you are so keen to look at my patterns waltzing you will see that I often reply to many at once on many threads and then do the same hours later rather than being present all day, if you see what I mean. It's a perfectly acceptable form of posting for those of us who work and can't keep up with posts all day.

Your harassment and constant attacking of me and attempts to pick fault with everything I do is really quite worrying , luckily I have a thick skin.