Non-binary pronouns change for my daughter

[Dollyplum]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and after searching, couldn't find any past threads for this.

My daughter now identifies as non-binary and has changed her name to reflect her new identity. She is now asking us to use they/them pronouns and tbh, we're really struggling with this. We don't have any issues with her wanting to be the person she wants to be, but I can't quite explain why we find the pronouns so hard to come to terms with. I guess from an old fashioned perspective, they/them is plural, and we have known her for nearly 14 years as a girl.

Can anyone give me some advice on how to handle this please? Are we just being stubborn? Should be change the pronouns? The name change was welcomed with open arms by our whole family and she is definitely happier that everyone has settled into this without issue. We have changed her name at school, dentist, etc. to her preferred name.

I'm sure other parents here have been through the same thing and any advice would be welcome please. Thank you so much :-) x

@midgedude

It can get very confused and there are stirrers who drop in to add to confusion, and , despite all talk of hive mind, there are divergent thoughts , often related to how scared or scarred people are

I get that.

But talk of brainwashing and not pandering doesnt help either midge.

There is wrong on both sides of all this and I don't see how there will ever be s compromise

I find it helpful to keep out of personal spats. And if you think someone is having a go, well I often realise I have expressed something badly, or misinterpreted something they said... like you did when you reported me earlier!

I haven't read the whole thread op, but I can well imagine how upsetting it can be for you.
My son's sex was revealed at his birth. I will never forget the midwife sliding him through my legs and announcing 'it's a boy'. We are very against gender stereotypes but if he decided to be referred to as they I think it would diminish the magic of that moment if that makes sense. Same for a name I lovingly agonised over and chose carefully. It'd hurt my feelings to have my history with my baby disregarded so readily by them do I understand your distress completely. Nicknames are different and vary from group to group, it feels like more of a rejection.

Perhaps DD is trying to escape sexism, who knows.

Myself I would just remind her of all the moments that are important to you about her. You realise she'll grow and become an adult but she'll always be your little girl. If that makes sense.
Of course that's exactly the sort of sentimental yuk teens find embarrassing.

I guess kids have always rebelled and you just have to hope at the end of it they come back to you.

Wishing you luck and strength.

@midgedude

I find it helpful to keep out of personal spats. And if you think someone is having a go, well I often realise I have expressed something badly, or misinterpreted something they said... like you did when you reported me earlier!

Yeah, fair enough. I did appreciate you explaining that, I did apologise but it got lost in the madness.

@twelly

Am rather confused over my post being deleted - is there somewhere to find out why?

Hi Twelly - your post included the word 'mutilate' referring to surgery sometimes undertaken by trans people, and we think it's just not a usage that's going encourage parents of trans children to seek help and support on Mumsnet.

While we've got you folks could we please ask you to drop the intra-personal battles? It would be great if this thread could actually be a useful resource for parents whose children are NB...

Thanks
MNHQ

@Sofetikal

Very disappointed that after more than 10 years on mumsnet I’ve been given a strike. My post simply stated the TikTok trend was worrying as my personal experience has shown. Is this hate speech now? Hardly strike worthy. If we cannot discuss these issues here, among other women and parents where can we? I give up.

Don't blame you, I don't understand that deletion either, it's very frustrating.

It would be great if this thread could actually be a useful resource for parents whose children are NB...

There are threads in the Teenagers board and in Feminist Chat where parents can look for support on this. A thread in AIBU, cut to ribbons with deletions and with only a single post from the OP probably isn't the best resource tbh.

Don't blame you, I don't understand that deletion either, it's very frustrating.

Yep. I don’t see how my comment was rude, insulting or derogatory and deserved a strike for merely stating a concern. Clearly MN is going the same way as other platforms and shutting down discussion.

@Sofetikal

Don't blame you, I don't understand that deletion either, it's very frustrating.

Yep. I don’t see how my comment was rude, insulting or derogatory and deserved a strike for merely stating a concern. Clearly MN is going the same way as other platforms and shutting down discussion.

I can understand it to some extent. Whilst on a technical level surgery to remove healthy tissue may be describe as a mutilation, using that term to describe trans-surgery is probably inflammatory and emotive. And I say that as someone who has definitely thought that term myself and may at some point have typed it

We probably wouldn't describe a rhinoplasty or a mastectomy for medical reasons as a mutilation, so the term mutilation is loaded and does imply criticism. It's probably not helpful in trying to progress discussion.

@Impatiens

It would be great if this thread could actually be a useful resource for parents whose children are NB...

There are threads in the Teenagers board and in Feminist Chat where parents can look for support on this. A thread in AIBU, cut to ribbons with deletions and with only a single post from the OP probably isn't the best resource tbh.

Think that's the point.

This post was for advice , not for our back and forth on our opinions

Gah sorry @Sofetikal
I can see you deletion was the Tik Tok one! My mistake! No idea either I'm afraid

I didn’t make the mutilation comment.

I said the amount of teens on TikTok transitioning is worrying.

Cross post

@Sofetikal

I didn’t make the mutilation comment.

I said the amount of teens on TikTok transitioning is worrying.

I don't get it either.

I wonder if you can't mention the app, which is strange as Twitter is mentioned daily!

@WaltzingBetty yes I would agree about 'mutilation' not being acceptable, it's too judgemental/emotive. Adults are allowed to do what they want to their bodies on the whole, whatever other ppl might think about it.

By the way, if parents of NB children are looking for sources of support this is a good organisation -
www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/

'We probably wouldn't describe a rhinoplasty or a mastectomy for medical reasons as a mutilation, so the term mutilation is loaded and does imply criticism. It's probably not helpful in trying to progress discussion.' yes this is exactly it @WaltzingBetty

[quote Impatiens]By the way, if parents of NB children are looking for sources of support this is a good organisation -
www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/[/quote]
In what way?

@Sofetikal

I didn’t make the mutilation comment.

I said the amount of teens on TikTok transitioning is worrying.

Hello - yes the wording was 'a scroll through TikTok will show how many teenagers are trans now and its very worrying.' Again, on a thread where parents of NB children are seeking and giving support we think the implication that being trans/increasing numbers of children presenting as trans is de facto 'worrying' is out of place - not all parents of trans and NB children see this as being worrying or concerning (in itself) at all, and our concern (at MNHQ) is not to allow posts that make sweeping negative generalisations about trans people or about the experience of being trans.

I can absolutely see that.

I've often thought the usage of concerning, worrying, alarming etc is not helpful to the discussion one iota.

All I can say is, what I’ve personally witnessed on there is very worrying. I follow some trans people who are actually very much in agreement about that. I would have been happy to elaborate why but as it’s not allowed to be discussed I won’t try.

Again, on a thread where parents of NB children are seeking and giving support we think the implication that being trans/increasing numbers of children presenting as trans is de facto 'worrying' is out of place

@RowanMumsnet - the OP herself/himself said that they are struggling to adapt to the pronouns. They haven't returned to the thread they started at all. No other posters on here appear to be looking for support.

Surely posting in AIBU implies that discussion is looked for? If only support - in the form of uncritical acceptance - is allowed then why wasn't the thread moved to a different board as per usual practice?

If people aren't even allowed to comment that they find something worrying/concerning how are they going to be able to express themselves if that's what they feel/believe?

@Sofetikal

All I can say is, what I’ve personally witnessed on there is very worrying. I follow some trans people who are actually very much in agreement about that. I would have been happy to elaborate why but as it’s not allowed to be discussed I won’t try.

Very good point - a number of trans people have said they are very concerned at the growing number of children identifying as trans. Is it wrong for them, with their greater insight into what trans means, to express that?

Only last night on this thread I congratulated MN on their brave approach to this issue, in the face of a barrage of criticism, but now you seem to be focussing on this thread to lay down far more draconian conditions for posting. I don't understand why?

@Impatiens

Again, on a thread where parents of NB children are seeking and giving support we think the implication that being trans/increasing numbers of children presenting as trans is de facto 'worrying' is out of place

@RowanMumsnet - the OP herself/himself said that they are struggling to adapt to the pronouns. They haven't returned to the thread they started at all. No other posters on here appear to be looking for support.

Surely posting in AIBU implies that discussion is looked for? If only support - in the form of uncritical acceptance - is allowed then why wasn't the thread moved to a different board as per usual practice?

If people aren't even allowed to comment that they find something worrying/concerning how are they going to be able to express themselves if that's what they feel/believe?

V good point about moving to a different board - posters often use AIBU for traffic (or don't know other boards well enough to start discussions there). As this is about a NB child the LGBT Parents topic doesn't feel quite right but I'll have a scan through and see if there's a good place to move it to.

In general though and in any board we would like to establish the principle that if parents of trans or NB children post for advice/support that's what they get, rather than lots of people (from all sides) having a barney about different political interpretations

@RowanMumsnet and is it now officially part of MN Moderation guidelines that posters can't say they are concerned/worried about the growing numbers of children identifying as trans?