Non-binary pronouns change for my daughter

[Dollyplum]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and after searching, couldn't find any past threads for this.

My daughter now identifies as non-binary and has changed her name to reflect her new identity. She is now asking us to use they/them pronouns and tbh, we're really struggling with this. We don't have any issues with her wanting to be the person she wants to be, but I can't quite explain why we find the pronouns so hard to come to terms with. I guess from an old fashioned perspective, they/them is plural, and we have known her for nearly 14 years as a girl.

Can anyone give me some advice on how to handle this please? Are we just being stubborn? Should be change the pronouns? The name change was welcomed with open arms by our whole family and she is definitely happier that everyone has settled into this without issue. We have changed her name at school, dentist, etc. to her preferred name.

I'm sure other parents here have been through the same thing and any advice would be welcome please. Thank you so much :-) x

@StiffLittleFingerrs

I just wanted to say that I really appreciate RootyT00t's contribution here. It's hard to put across the opinions of most people on a site that is continually taken over by one viewpoint all on your own! The feminist boards are just an echo chamber, nobody even tries to disagree or share ideas and opinions that don't fit exactly with the FWRs because of the pile on. I am so pleased that kids are so much more accepting of each other and differences than they were in the 80s. This trans issue feels like the same shit that went on for gay and lesbian people then. I think there are less haters now. They are mostly older and on MN or reading The Daily Mail.

Adding to the appreciation of rootys posts too . It's a thread about respecting pronouns, nothing to do with surgery etc and this thread has turned into an identikit same as all the other trans threads.

Respecting pronouns though has to work both ways
Which it can't
Someone who wants they pronouns is making a statement about the meaning of those pronouns.. that they are about which gender box one sees themselves in

They are thus making other people who are uncomfortable with any gender box very uncomfortable
.. if they are they , I am not she anymore because that means gender she not sex she

Personally I think all of us should move to they pronouns because there is no need to indicates sex so much

But many women who feel like they are being erased as a class find that a step towards that erasure

Being non binary isn’t a Tiktok trend, it’s history.

listverse.com/2015/10/21/10-examples-of-nonbinary-genders-throughout-history/

No, Waltzing. Not on this occasion.

@midgedude

Respecting pronouns though has to work both ways Which it can't Someone who wants they pronouns is making a statement about the meaning of those pronouns.. that they are about which gender box one sees themselves in

They are thus making other people who are uncomfortable with any gender box very uncomfortable
.. if they are they , I am not she anymore because that means gender she not sex she

Personally I think all of us should move to they pronouns because there is no need to indicates sex so much

But many women who feel like they are being erased as a class find that a step towards that erasure

Exactly. So there is no winner. This debate will never be solved and that's a shame.

Cheers @Mockolate 😘

It could be solved

Since we are in agreement that gender boxes are too restrictive , all that is different is how we chose to try and overcome the problem

Perhaps long term it will resolve ... so many genders will be identified that we can have one each keeping everyone happy

Then since learning everbodies unique pronouns would be just like everyone having a double barrelled name

It appears you've had people refusing to debate with you before. I wonder why.

From what? That's certainly not my experience.

Time and time again I've seen your above response where posters can't see that people genuinely just want nothing to do with them. It's arrogance in the highest extreme. in the real world I wouldn't entertain verbal discussion with people who behave in that manner , so I don't on here. But posters will never learn because they just do a glee little chuckle at how clever they are and how the other person just isn't intelligent enough to debate with them. But each to their own.

If you think I'm arrogant for asking polite questions and expecting a response on a discussion thread then I guess we just have a different expectation of discussion. You seem to think that makes me rude arrogant and absurd. But if everyone took your approach and refused to answer polite questions or discuss these issues then the is no discussion. And that helps no one.

As I said, I'm not risking a third strike for someone who will never look outside their own views anyway.

I've asked you a number of polite questions because as I've repeatedly said I'm interested in discussion of these issues. You've attacked me, dismissed me and generally been rude. Yet I'm still here trying to politely understand your perspective.

You on the other hand have shown no interest in exploring my views...

This debate will never be solved and that's a shame.

It certainly won't be solved if people refuse to discuss things or answer questions or ask questions of others whilst assuming they're entrenched in their views.

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy

@WaltzingBetty

This debate will never be solved and that's a shame.

It certainly won't be solved if people refuse to discuss things or answer questions or ask questions of others whilst assuming they're entrenched in their views.

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy

Yes, because I am the problem Waltzing. Me personally.

Give it a rest Betty. You're not helping your cause with the faux polite questions

@WaltzingBetty

It appears you've had people refusing to debate with you before. I wonder why.

From what? That's certainly not my experience.

Time and time again I've seen your above response where posters can't see that people genuinely just want nothing to do with them. It's arrogance in the highest extreme. in the real world I wouldn't entertain verbal discussion with people who behave in that manner , so I don't on here. But posters will never learn because they just do a glee little chuckle at how clever they are and how the other person just isn't intelligent enough to debate with them. But each to their own.

If you think I'm arrogant for asking polite questions and expecting a response on a discussion thread then I guess we just have a different expectation of discussion. You seem to think that makes me rude arrogant and absurd. But if everyone took your approach and refused to answer polite questions or discuss these issues then the is no discussion. And that helps no one.

As I said, I'm not risking a third strike for someone who will never look outside their own views anyway.

I've asked you a number of polite questions because as I've repeatedly said I'm interested in discussion of these issues. You've attacked me, dismissed me and generally been rude. Yet I'm still here trying to politely understand your perspective.

You on the other hand have shown no interest in exploring my views...

That's because I have no interest in exploring your views, or you exploring mine, but I've said that.

And I don't buy your faux 'but I'm just interested in your opinion' one iota. It's not often I refuse to interact with someone, and I've taken far more of a pounding on other threads. I just know when I want to draw the line with particular posters and that is my right. Do you generally refuse to accept people's boundaries? It's really not a lot to ask. There are lots of other active posters.

@midgedude

It could be solved

Since we are in agreement that gender boxes are too restrictive , all that is different is how we chose to try and overcome the problem

Perhaps long term it will resolve ... so many genders will be identified that we can have one each keeping everyone happy

Then since learning everbodies unique pronouns would be just like everyone having a double barrelled name

I agree.

But, you know those boards as well as I do midge.
How many times a day do we see 'theres male and female end of'

There is only make and female biology end of. Related to baby making function

I don't ever see people here arguing that there are only male and female genders

They are more likely to argue that there is no such thing as an innate gender

@CartwheelingChloe

Give it a rest Betty. You're not helping your cause with the faux polite questions

Well I can definitely see how these issues don't progress when the 'rules' don't question, don't discus, don't share different viewpoints and don't be polite

@midgedude

There is only make and female biology end of. Related to baby making function

I don't ever see people here arguing that there are only male and female genders

They are more likely to argue that there is no such thing as an innate gender

But that's not how it comes across, to people who don't research it , if you will

Am rather confused over my post being deleted - is there somewhere to find out why?

It can get very confused and there are stirrers who drop in to add to confusion, and , despite all talk of hive mind, there are divergent thoughts , often related to how scared or scarred people are

The issues don't progress because one side is out to trip up, faux polite question, ridicule and generally relentlessly hammer this side until they give up and go away (preferably come to the other side to join the echo chambers, but this doesn't happen because these posters don't realise that they are pushing people even further away from their cause).

Then, when checked for their behaviour, they claim they were just asking.

The MN equivalent of the harassment and picking on of someone and then claiming they were only joking.

You may be collateral here Betty but you are exhibiting the behaviour that I'm no longer willing to tolerate. You can think of me what you like for that, I care more about my mental well being and my boundaries than I do the issue in hand and being 'right'.

@twelly

Am rather confused over my post being deleted - is there somewhere to find out why?

You can email MNHQ and ask

@twelly

Am rather confused over my post being deleted - is there somewhere to find out why?

I emailed them back to apologise as one of my strikes was something I honestly genuinely didn't realise was offensive.

You can do that.

@oblada

In your shoes I'd honestly not go along with it. I'd support the name change absolutely, their name, their choice. But I wouldn't change the pronouns I use and I don't see how changing/not changing will make them happier/less happy. I'd have a conversation about it, about how I support their choices in terms of lifestyle but this doesn't extend to changing the way (other than name, which is already a pretty big one!) I have known and addressed them for many years. You can respect your child and support them without going with every request they make. Maybe I'm old fashioned.

I'm so pleased my teens grew up in an era where we didnt haveto pander to this nonsence. I feel sorry for parents and even more sorrt for children who are being brainwashed.

@RootyT00t

The issues don't progress because one side is out to trip up, faux polite question, ridicule and generally relentlessly hammer this side until they give up and go away (preferably come to the other side to join the echo chambers, but this doesn't happen because these posters don't realise that they are pushing people even further away from their cause).

Then, when checked for their behaviour, they claim they were just asking.

The MN equivalent of the harassment and picking on of someone and then claiming they were only joking.

You may be collateral here Betty but you are exhibiting the behaviour that I'm no longer willing to tolerate. You can think of me what you like for that, I care more about my mental well being and my boundaries than I do the issue in hand and being 'right'.

You ignoring he fact that I've actually agreed with you a few times. I don't think our views are as far apart as you think they are.

It's just that on the few points where we have disagreed, I've given evidence to explain what my perspective is based on, and asked you about why you think the way that you do and you've refused to answer or engage in any discussion then called me names and accused me of goading you.

🤷‍♀️

You can paint that however you like