Non-binary pronouns change for my daughter

[Dollyplum]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and after searching, couldn't find any past threads for this.

My daughter now identifies as non-binary and has changed her name to reflect her new identity. She is now asking us to use they/them pronouns and tbh, we're really struggling with this. We don't have any issues with her wanting to be the person she wants to be, but I can't quite explain why we find the pronouns so hard to come to terms with. I guess from an old fashioned perspective, they/them is plural, and we have known her for nearly 14 years as a girl.

Can anyone give me some advice on how to handle this please? Are we just being stubborn? Should be change the pronouns? The name change was welcomed with open arms by our whole family and she is definitely happier that everyone has settled into this without issue. We have changed her name at school, dentist, etc. to her preferred name.

I'm sure other parents here have been through the same thing and any advice would be welcome please. Thank you so much :-) x

*teenagers do not stop identifying as female because they don't like the pay gap and sexual assault etc.

That is absurd.*

Why then? If we accept that gender is a social construct, then identifying with (or against) that social construct must involve forming an impression of that construct based on associations with particular genders?

@Treebranch

*teenagers do not stop identifying as female because they don't like the pay gap and sexual assault etc.

That is absurd.*

Why then? If we accept that gender is a social construct, then identifying with (or against) that social construct must involve forming an impression of that construct based on associations with particular genders?

Yes, but do you not think it's far far more about their own body image and self image than I fancy being a man because of the pay gap?

People on the other side of the debate think like this because they live in a world shaped by looking for misogny. Teenagers, on the whole, are thankfully still not wrapped in this

I think their self image is shaped by misogyny, they just don't get that , it's an understanding that comes over time

Yes, but do you not think it's far far more about their own body image and self image than I fancy being a man because of the pay gap?

People on the other side of the debate think like this because they live in a world shaped by looking for misogny. Teenagers, on the whole, are thankfully still not wrapped in this

So what's driving the body image concerns in these teenagers that live in this misogyny-free society?

A look through TikTok videos and comments is rife with people saying lesbians are really just trans men . Young impressionable girls are seeing this day in day out. A lot of it seems deeply rooted in homophobia to me.

@WaltzingBetty

Yes, but do you not think it's far far more about their own body image and self image than I fancy being a man because of the pay gap?

People on the other side of the debate think like this because they live in a world shaped by looking for misogny. Teenagers, on the whole, are thankfully still not wrapped in this

So what's driving the body image concerns in these teenagers that live in this misogyny-free society?

Did I say they live in a misogny free society? You are utterly relentless.

People on the other side of the debate think like this because they live in a world shaped by looking for misogny.

No. Our society is shaped by misogyny - there's no need to go looking for it, it's everywhere.

No you said that teens are not wrapped in misogyny. Which amounts to the same thing. But since you've consistently misrepresented what I've said, I didn't realise you expected me to quote you word for word.

It's a discussion board - you called my reasoning absurd and have consistently tried to belittle my evidence based posts by rephrasing and twisting to fit your narrative, and yet refusing to actually discuss your own viewpoint or answer any questions. You seem to think you're entitled to set out your opinion unchallenged. You aren't

And if answering these questions is difficult or uncomfortable then doesn't that tell you something about the rationale for those opinions?

So please do tell us what body image concerns are driven by if not societal misogyny ?

I think it is dangerous these teenagers are being influenced by adults with an agenda - they are young, they are discovering the world seeing what’s out there. They are being encouraged to go down a route which is quite frankly absurd - they are born either male or female.

@Impatiens

People on the other side of the debate think like this because they live in a world shaped by looking for misogny.

No. Our society is shaped by misogyny - there's no need to go looking for it, it's everywhere.

Yes.

But not everyone thinks like you. I know that might be hard to get.

[quote RootyT00t]@WaltzingBettyould be utterly bizarre if I thought I could set out my opinions unchallenged given that I am the poster most challenged on this thread. I havent belittled or twisted a single thing you've said.

Answering th questions isn't difficult, I just don't like your way of doing it and haven't from the start. Again, that's why you were on multiple deletions and I wasn't.

I won't be engaging with you further but feel free to strike up a discussion with any of the other active posters rather than just me.[/quote]
You called my post 'absurd' and misrepresented what I said as 'deciding to be a man because of the gender pay gap'. But sure ignore that if you prefer.

You've also had many more posts deleted than me so your accusations are bizarre I'm sure I could add to your tally by reporting you for calling me arrogant and absurd. But I've not reported you for anything as I'd rather let your posts reflect the reality of your 'reasoning'

You don't like my questions because they challenge your ideology and you're struggling to answer them. That's ok. But doesn't it make more sense to reflect on why you can't answer my questions rather than criticise me for asking them?

I'm not sure why you think this to be an elaborate lie.

Apologies, this was a few pages back but I’ve been elsewhere and things have moved on quickly!

Rooty you say you use that terms “folks, class” etc to avoid saying boys and girls. So if there was a group of boys fighting and toy needs to let SLT know, what would you say? Would you tell the person who’s coming that it’s a group of boys fighting?

Genuinely interested - we see this playing out in news reports of crimes apparently committed by women that turn out to have been committed by men who say they are women.

Sorry about typos - you get the drift I’m sure

@FamilyOfAliens

I'm not sure why you think this to be an elaborate lie.

Apologies, this was a few pages back but I’ve been elsewhere and things have moved on quickly!

Rooty you say you use that terms “folks, class” etc to avoid saying boys and girls. So if there was a group of boys fighting and toy needs to let SLT know, what would you say? Would you tell the person who’s coming that it’s a group of boys fighting?

Genuinely interested - we see this playing out in news reports of crimes apparently committed by women that turn out to have been committed by men who say they are women.

Id use the registered pronoun , as we do have non binary children in our school .

Hi SLT, there was a group of pupils fighting - the pupils involved were bla bla and bla

I have been schools a lot less longer than him. It was part of our training and I can't think of a school I've been in that doesn't at least mention it as a general thing. it's not that you can't, but as you will know you pick up the type of language of those around you.

However my primary friends all use boys and girls.

OP, I'm a gender critical feminist and appalled and angry at what is going on at the moment with gender ideology BUT I also understand that you are asking for help here and the relationship between you and your daughter is not the place to wage a war :)

Of course it is hard for you to change your language when you have been using she and her for 14 years. As an aside, it's strange because while I reject 99.9% of the gender stuff, I do actually quite like the idea of gender neutral pronouns and I would be happy to be referred like that, it's a shame that 'it' is offensive when applied to people as it would work much better than 'they' because of the confusion with plurals.

Anyway, what I wanted to say was that I think the key thing is to talk to your daughter about perspective and resilience, and how to react if people don't always use her preferred pronouns. Inevitably it will happen, for lots of reasons:

1. Someone who knows her forgets from time to time - they're busy, they have other things going on in their life.
2. People who aren't up to date with how things are now don't have any idea that they might be saying the wrong thing
3. People with eg. autism really struggle to see one thing and have to say another
4. Some people don't believe in gender ideology and think it is damaging to women so believe it is more respectful to stick to sex for pronouns
5. Some people may aggressively 'mis-gender' on purpose to make a point

So all these things might happen and at that point, your daughter has a choice - she can choose to be offended and upset, or she can take a step back and realise that this is about other people, not about her. If she is confident in her identity then it won't come crumbling down because someone else said the wrong thing, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Good mental health is about having perspective, and realising everything isn't about you all the time.

So build her self esteem, help her to see her strengths, and yes, keep talking to her about what lies beneath all this, what are her views on the expectations placed on young women and men, how does gender relate to sex, what is it about identifying as non-binary that feels better? How does that fit with how you feel about yourself as a woman, a mother and your experience of life? There are a lot of labels and slogans flying about at the moment so encouraging her to dig a bit deeper and think critically about what it all means is really important and will give her the self confidence to choose whatever path is right for her.