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Original poster

Non-binary pronouns change for my daughter

894 replies

Dollyplum · 16/02/2021 16:30

Hi everyone, I'm new here and after searching, couldn't find any past threads for this.

My daughter now identifies as non-binary and has changed her name to reflect her new identity. She is now asking us to use they/them pronouns and tbh, we're really struggling with this. We don't have any issues with her wanting to be the person she wants to be, but I can't quite explain why we find the pronouns so hard to come to terms with. I guess from an old fashioned perspective, they/them is plural, and we have known her for nearly 14 years as a girl.

Can anyone give me some advice on how to handle this please? Are we just being stubborn? Should be change the pronouns? The name change was welcomed with open arms by our whole family and she is definitely happier that everyone has settled into this without issue. We have changed her name at school, dentist, etc. to her preferred name.

I'm sure other parents here have been through the same thing and any advice would be welcome please. Thank you so much :-) x

OP posts:
RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 17/02/2021 19:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post.

Dalyesque · 17/02/2021 19:06

One of my concerns would be that she is at risk because of being a teenage girl in a world where boys and men could be a danger to her. I would want to say to her that however she identifies out of being a girl, it may not protect her, and specifically she may need to make quick judgements about others, and she needs to be able to see who may be the people who she needs to be wary of. Those are facts that may get in the way of her ideas that she is somehow invisible

Treebranch · 17/02/2021 19:07

I think it is so sad that young girls think that the way to try and escape the oppression that they feel is to identify as 'non-binary'. It's not the answer, and they will come to that realisation and feel even more let down.

It doesn't have to be The Answer. I doubt any teenager has an answer to sex and gender based oppression! They're just finding ways to live with it and those ways will probably change as they get older and that is normal.

RootyT00t · 17/02/2021 19:07

@BarbaraofKent

I think it is so sad that young girls think that the way to try and escape the oppression that they feel is to identify as 'non-binary'. It's not the answer, and they will come to that realisation and feel even more let down.
I'm so happy you're still going Grin
Impatiens · 17/02/2021 19:12

@Stripesnomore

I can’t believe no binary being treated as a storm in a tea cup is being compared to genuine oppression that gay men faced during the AIDS epidemic.
There's no comparison too ridiculous or offensive for trans activists to use - they will literally say anything to emotionally blackmail people or try to shut them up.
RootyT00t · 17/02/2021 19:13

Ii haven't seen that particular analogy but I don't agree with it.

I do think both sides are guiltu of offensive analogies though.

Dustyboots · 17/02/2021 19:21

Sex and gender are distinctly different things. Sex is solely what you are assigned at birth from your genitalia. This does not by any means define your gender, which is an entirely separate thing. You may know your child’s sex, but that is by no means their gender

Is this actual scientific fact?

Impatiens · 17/02/2021 19:28

@Dustyboots - Is this actual scientific fact?

No. You aren't 'assigned' a sex at birth (makes it sound as if someone's making the choice on your behalf!) - your sex is observed. These days you might well already know what sex your baby is from scans/tests.

In the tiny proportion of cases where it isn't possible to tell the sex of a baby by observation then further tests can be done.

The stuff about gender has no basis in biological science at all - it's about sociology/psychology.

RootyT00t · 17/02/2021 19:28

@Dustyboots

Sex and gender are distinctly different things. Sex is solely what you are assigned at birth from your genitalia. This does not by any means define your gender, which is an entirely separate thing. You may know your child’s sex, but that is by no means their gender

Is this actual scientific fact?

Yes
Stripesnomore · 17/02/2021 19:28

If gender is an entirely separate thing from sex, why do people keep using words like male and female to refer to gender? Isn’t that a bit confusing?

RootyT00t · 17/02/2021 19:28

[quote Impatiens]**@Dustyboots* - Is this actual scientific fact?*

No. You aren't 'assigned' a sex at birth (makes it sound as if someone's making the choice on your behalf!) - your sex is observed. These days you might well already know what sex your baby is from scans/tests.

In the tiny proportion of cases where it isn't possible to tell the sex of a baby by observation then further tests can be done.

The stuff about gender has no basis in biological science at all - it's about sociology/psychology.[/quote]
Psychology and sociology are social sciences.

RootyT00t · 17/02/2021 19:29

@Stripesnomore

If gender is an entirely separate thing from sex, why do people keep using words like male and female to refer to gender? Isn’t that a bit confusing?
I don't think so, unless people deliberately misunderstand to nit pick. I don't think any of this is genuinely confusing, it's just whether people agree with it.
midgedude · 17/02/2021 19:30

Social science isn't biology ?

Stripesnomore · 17/02/2021 19:31

So gender is scientific fact in the same way penis envy and the Oedipus complex are.

RootyT00t · 17/02/2021 19:31

@midgedude

Social science isn't biology ?
Didn't say it was.

Someone asked if it had roots in science. It does.

RootyT00t · 17/02/2021 19:32

@Stripesnomore

So gender is scientific fact in the same way penis envy and the Oedipus complex are.
Mmm..how many posts ago was the mention of offensive comparisons?
Stripesnomore · 17/02/2021 19:34

If gender is totally separate to sex, what is the purpose of using sex terms to describe it. Why not use completely different words like japes for one group, cays for another, and larpes for the third? Because when you keep using terms like men, women, male, female etc, it really gives the impression that gender is somehow connected to biological sex.

Stripesnomore · 17/02/2021 19:36

How is comparing gender psychology to Freud offensive?! He is the father of psychoanalysis.

Comparing Freud, psychology, gender or nonbinary to the aids epidemic would be offensive.

Dustyboots · 17/02/2021 19:38

Ok. So I was born with a vagina. All through my life I have felt gender neutral.

Can I enjoy that feeling privately? Do I need to say that my gender is neutral or something other than female?

Why does it matter? I would hate for everyone to refer to me as ‘they’. It would draw attention to me.

midgedude · 17/02/2021 19:39

Scientific facts comes from science. Facts about out bodies tend to be best served by the biological sciences. Not social sciences.

But when you talk about psychology as a science it's more about using th scientific method to gain understanding

They have not proven that gender exists Outside of the social construct .
They have not shown that everyone has gender.
They have shown that gender is mutable,
They have not shown that all people assign gender when they observe sex, just bigots

It's a great thing, application of science

RootyT00t · 17/02/2021 19:42

Genuine question.

Do people genuinely not understand it? Hence the questions? Or is it just yet another way of pretending it doesn't exist.

Cause here's the thing. I may be on the 'other side: but it doesn't affect me directly. You will never change my mind. Or anyone's. So why pretend we don't get it?

I don't particularly agree with certain religious teachings but I don't pretend I don't understand them.

RootyT00t · 17/02/2021 19:43

@midgedude

Scientific facts comes from science. Facts about out bodies tend to be best served by the biological sciences. Not social sciences.

But when you talk about psychology as a science it's more about using th scientific method to gain understanding

They have not proven that gender exists Outside of the social construct .
They have not shown that everyone has gender.
They have shown that gender is mutable,
They have not shown that all people assign gender when they observe sex, just bigots

It's a great thing, application of science

Reported for your use of bigots for people who observe gender Midge.
Dustyboots · 17/02/2021 19:44

I don’t understand it.

My son was being ‘taught’ this at school recently. I want to know what it means and where the idea comes from.

RootyT00t · 17/02/2021 19:46

@Dustyboots

Ok. So I was born with a vagina. All through my life I have felt gender neutral.

Can I enjoy that feeling privately? Do I need to say that my gender is neutral or something other than female?

Why does it matter? I would hate for everyone to refer to me as ‘they’. It would draw attention to me.

Taking you at face value that you don't understand

You might not want to tell anyone. You might feel very comfortable in yourself. You feel that way.

Other people don't.

What is the difference between you who feels gender neutral and someone who feels that but wants known as they? All of this because someone wants to be called they?

Now, according to PP, you can't express being gender neutral without automatically going on puberty blockers and changing your life. But that's just not true.

Dustyboots · 17/02/2021 19:49

Yes. I’m a private person. Some people like to be more public. I get that.

But I don’t understand why this needs to be taught in schools.