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Original poster

Non-binary pronouns change for my daughter

894 replies

Dollyplum · 16/02/2021 16:30

Hi everyone, I'm new here and after searching, couldn't find any past threads for this.

My daughter now identifies as non-binary and has changed her name to reflect her new identity. She is now asking us to use they/them pronouns and tbh, we're really struggling with this. We don't have any issues with her wanting to be the person she wants to be, but I can't quite explain why we find the pronouns so hard to come to terms with. I guess from an old fashioned perspective, they/them is plural, and we have known her for nearly 14 years as a girl.

Can anyone give me some advice on how to handle this please? Are we just being stubborn? Should be change the pronouns? The name change was welcomed with open arms by our whole family and she is definitely happier that everyone has settled into this without issue. We have changed her name at school, dentist, etc. to her preferred name.

I'm sure other parents here have been through the same thing and any advice would be welcome please. Thank you so much :-) x

OP posts:
RootyT00t · 16/02/2021 23:04

@WaltzingBetty we'd better stop anyone under 25 getting married, having children , having any kind of cosmetic surgery, drinking , going to the army, etc etc etc

FamilyOfAliens · 16/02/2021 23:04

I don't refer to gender at all, in the same way I don't speak about mums and dads.

What does this even mean? Being a mum or dad has nothing to do with “gender”.

pumpkinbump · 16/02/2021 23:04

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WaltzingBetty · 16/02/2021 23:05

@BrumBoo

Or do people only do that who think it's woo woo woo with no real experience of this and are going on what they read on the internet?

I have plenty of experience of knowing trans and a couple of non-binary people. Very much like religion, I accept people have personal beliefs that are very real to them. I will respect their beliefs. I do not have to agree with them, or believe them myself. If I enter a religious setting, I will follow their rules, but away from it I do not have to acknowledge them. Same with those with gender preferences, it is not up to me to 'lecture' or deny a gender believer to their face when they clearly just want to get on with their day, but when the topic comes up elsewhere I do not have oblige any gender beliefs over sex. Gender is as much a woowoo belief as religion, but we can still be respectful of the people.

Yes this.

I have friends who are pretty fundamental Christians, I'm an atheist

I understand that they have some anxiety and trauma issues that mean for them putting their beliefs in an benevolent god gives them a sense of reassurance and control (as well as a church community)

I'm sure gender ideology does similar for all of the people who 'refuse' to be defined by the stereotyped view of 'man' and 'woman'... in fact I'm pretty sure I saw Alex Drummond on YouTube telling me that women could even fix cars.

So that was good to know Hmm

RootyT00t · 16/02/2021 23:05

Il take that as a no Vaster.

Therefore, you can't understand.

RootyT00t · 16/02/2021 23:06

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RootyT00t · 16/02/2021 23:07

And pumpkin, if you think this particular child is the only one in the country with a legal name and gender change, agreed by parents and school, you really need to get off the research and out in the real world.

BrumBoo · 16/02/2021 23:08

And not one PP would actually shout at a distressed child that it's woo woo and made up by stonewall and they need psychological help. Not one.

Of course not. Unfortunately, stonewall and other charities are trying to do the opposite by going into schools and teaching their trans-umbrella beliefs as fact. To counter this, we can at least educate other adults about the nonsense and dangerous ideology that's being spread by TRAs and gender believers when the issue arises on places such as parenting forums.

WaltzingBetty · 16/02/2021 23:08

[quote RootyT00t]@WaltzingBetty we'd better stop anyone under 25 getting married, having children , having any kind of cosmetic surgery, drinking , going to the army, etc etc etc[/quote]
If you think taking fertility reducing drugs and having unnecessary life-altering surgery is the same as the entirely reversible process of getting married then I think we'll struggle to have a reasoned discussion.

I was merely pointing out the neurobiological evidence. If you want to take that to the extreme in a poor attempt to ridicule it rather than engage meaningfully. That is your choice.

pumpkinbump · 16/02/2021 23:08

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RootyT00t · 16/02/2021 23:09

@FamilyOfAliens

I don't refer to gender at all, in the same way I don't speak about mums and dads.

What does this even mean? Being a mum or dad has nothing to do with “gender”.

I'm aware of that.

My point was I don't use the terms boys and girls, I don't make any reference to gender at all.

In the same way I don't use mum and dad because not everyone lives with mum and dad.

Modern day teaching is very fluid.

More often than not I hear teachers saying do you know such and such? Could you ask them to come down instead of him or her. It's becoming common speak.

People can sniff and rant all they like but we are living in a world where we are trying , weirdly enough , to bridge the gap and prevent drastic measures.

pumpkinbump · 16/02/2021 23:09

@RootyT00t

And pumpkin, if you think this particular child is the only one in the country with a legal name and gender change, agreed by parents and school, you really need to get off the research and out in the real world.
I know they're not. It's worrying! Shouldn't be happening AT ALL!
RootyT00t · 16/02/2021 23:10

@WaltzingBetty

It's not that , it's that I think I read endless threads on here of people going ballistic that a mother is still invested at 20 odd (yesterday in fact) yet when it comes to these issues, all is game , even other people's children!

RootyT00t · 16/02/2021 23:11

But it is.

And you can't answer this because the ranting in the world won't fix it.

What do those of us who work amongst it do about it?

pumpkinbump · 16/02/2021 23:11

You don't use the term boys and girls at all? So aside from affirming a confused child's gender identity, you're taking away the blanket term for boys and girls who think they're just that, boys and girls. Sinister.

WaltzingBetty · 16/02/2021 23:12

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FamilyOfAliens · 16/02/2021 23:13

My point was I don't use the terms boys and girls, I don't make any reference to gender at all.

The words boys and girls refer to a child’s sex. Again, those words have nothing to do with gender.

RootyT00t · 16/02/2021 23:14

@BrumBoo

And not one PP would actually shout at a distressed child that it's woo woo and made up by stonewall and they need psychological help. Not one.

Of course not. Unfortunately, stonewall and other charities are trying to do the opposite by going into schools and teaching their trans-umbrella beliefs as fact. To counter this, we can at least educate other adults about the nonsense and dangerous ideology that's being spread by TRAs and gender believers when the issue arises on places such as parenting forums.

Bit of a myth. Schools have to jump through hoops to be involved with stonewall and use resources (I'm not disagreeing they're appalling).

I've worked in a stonewall approved school. I've worked in many that arent.

But I don't think education is taking place. The divide is deepening.

'no you're not so there ' and smacking down anyone who tries any other way as a cult and a ghoul never worked, and never will.

Think about it. When you were young and wanted to do something , did anything your parent said make a blind but of difference every time?

We need to be affirming these kids. Understanding them. Being on board with them. Keeping them talking. Knowing who they're talking to.

A child told by the likes of PPs that it's a load of nonsense and woo woo and get a grip will not go, aw ok you're right.

They will find other people to chat to, the people we are all agreed they shouldn't be.

BrumBoo · 16/02/2021 23:14

@RootyT00t as for the real world, and comparing gender issues with MH ones, I dont think you're quite aware of the correlation between them. Being dx as having a trans-idenitity is being used as a plaster-over-bullet-wound approach in many cases. Mental health care in this country is horrifically abysmal, and as a part of that autism awareness, especially in girls. There is also still much internalised homophobia, and mixed in with society boxing in 'girls are xn boys are y personality' from before they're even born, it's of little surprise that people think their gender is wrong rather than accept they're different in a way society refuses to acknowledge.

RootyT00t · 16/02/2021 23:14

@FamilyOfAliens

My point was I don't use the terms boys and girls, I don't make any reference to gender at all.

The words boys and girls refer to a child’s sex. Again, those words have nothing to do with gender.

I'm not sure why you've jumped on half a conversation, or what you're actually asking me.
FamilyOfAliens · 16/02/2021 23:14

Modern day teaching is very fluid.

I would disagree with this statement too.

The National Curriculum has never been so prescriptive.

RootyT00t · 16/02/2021 23:15

[quote BrumBoo]@RootyT00t as for the real world, and comparing gender issues with MH ones, I dont think you're quite aware of the correlation between them. Being dx as having a trans-idenitity is being used as a plaster-over-bullet-wound approach in many cases. Mental health care in this country is horrifically abysmal, and as a part of that autism awareness, especially in girls. There is also still much internalised homophobia, and mixed in with society boxing in 'girls are xn boys are y personality' from before they're even born, it's of little surprise that people think their gender is wrong rather than accept they're different in a way society refuses to acknowledge.[/quote]
Fair enough. But that isn't the case every time , is it?

Autistic girls is an easy card but it's not every child.

WaltzingBetty · 16/02/2021 23:15

[quote RootyT00t]@WaltzingBetty

It's not that , it's that I think I read endless threads on here of people going ballistic that a mother is still invested at 20 odd (yesterday in fact) yet when it comes to these issues, all is game , even other people's children![/quote]
Well to be honest you aren't coming across on this thread as particularly reasoned.

And that 'rationale' doesn't really help you.

Why don't you use your own thoughts if you're going to challenge me rather than trying to crowbar 'unrelated MN threads' in as some kind of 'evidence base' for your very flawed challenge, and attacking other posters as 'space cadets' in a 'faux-answer' to my previous question

FamilyOfAliens · 16/02/2021 23:16

I’m not asking you anything. I’m telling you the words girls and boys refer to a child’s sex. Why you would avoid using them is incomprehensible.

RootyT00t · 16/02/2021 23:16

@FamilyOfAliens

Modern day teaching is very fluid.

I would disagree with this statement too.

The National Curriculum has never been so prescriptive.

You seem determined to disagree with everything I say.

Within the school I'm in, the language we use is fluid. Therefore, I don't need to make a big fuss about gender and a big scene if a child changes name because we don't use sex and gender really anyway. (That was an answer to a PP).

Is that Ok?

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