Non-binary pronouns change for my daughter

[Dollyplum]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and after searching, couldn't find any past threads for this.

My daughter now identifies as non-binary and has changed her name to reflect her new identity. She is now asking us to use they/them pronouns and tbh, we're really struggling with this. We don't have any issues with her wanting to be the person she wants to be, but I can't quite explain why we find the pronouns so hard to come to terms with. I guess from an old fashioned perspective, they/them is plural, and we have known her for nearly 14 years as a girl.

Can anyone give me some advice on how to handle this please? Are we just being stubborn? Should be change the pronouns? The name change was welcomed with open arms by our whole family and she is definitely happier that everyone has settled into this without issue. We have changed her name at school, dentist, etc. to her preferred name.

I'm sure other parents here have been through the same thing and any advice would be welcome please. Thank you so much :-) x

I mean, they haven't expressed an interest in having surgery, but aside from baby feeding issues I don't see the harm in being flat chested. Many women are.

But dad doesn't get any say over 'his' pronouns? In fact he's an 'arsehole' if he expresses one because it's important that everyone use the pronouns the child has expressed a preference for.

And I am wondering what makes Dad and Grandma arseholes if they object to this slightly unequal playing field?

@WaltzingBetty

In the same way in that I know what gay is, but I don't know how it feels to be attracted to a woman.

No but being same-sex attracted is an affirmative definition

Being non-binary is an undefinable feeling that seems to boil down to 'I'm not a harmful traditional stereotype' which seems only to reinforce the stereotypical representation and role of women in society. And since it's impossible to self identify out of misogyny it has the double whammy of exposing women to societal misogyny whilst also reinforcing the stereotypes of what a woman 'should be'

That seems pretty harmful to me

It isn't about that though.

Women cannot continue to demonise it because they think it's misognystic.

18 right... So pregnant women in their 20s and 30s faced with the dilemma of breastfeeding or not, not a huge deal but it is to them. Women in their 30s and 40s who have to decide on a double mastectomy due to breast cancer scares, who even at this mature stage struggle with the psychological trauma of losing both breasts. And you think an 18 year old is equipped to deal with these decisions which will impact them in later life?

I have a serious question.

My job role causes me to work with a non binary name changed child.

What do I do? Refuse to acknowledge this? Use the original name?

Or do people only do that who think it's woo woo woo with no real experience of this and are going on what they read on the internet?

Perhaps next time I see mum at parents evening I could tell her what PP affirmed that she is a shit parent.

Or do I accept it by day and deny it at night? Because those of us actually working amongst it are doing more than flinging insults on a board.

I'm not a TRA. I'm a human in the real world trying to navigate one hell of a divide which this branch of feminism has to take some accountability for.

I get that TRAs can be hideous on social media etc - but they are not the ones hammering me and parents to completely disregard the living existing children in our day to day lives.

Have you ever known the parent of a trans child, Vaster?

It isn't about that though.

Why isn't it?

Women cannot continue to demonise it because they think it's misognystic.
In what way is perpetuating traditional stereotypes of women not misogynistic or harmful? Why can't women object to societal terms that define them in terms of farm flu stereotypes?

@pumpkinbump

18 right... So pregnant women in their 20s and 30s faced with the dilemma of breastfeeding or not, not a huge deal but it is to them. Women in their 30s and 40s who have to decide on a double mastectomy due to breast cancer scares, who even at this mature stage struggle with the psychological trauma of losing both breasts. And you think an 18 year old is equipped to deal with these decisions which will impact them in later life?

At what age do you deem it appropriate then? 20? 30? 40?

At 18, her child can do as they like.

I don't disagree with you , but I don't understand how you can police it.

Interestingly enough though, it's not that common.

@WaltzingBetty

It isn't about that though.

Why isn't it?

Women cannot continue to demonise it because they think it's misognystic.
In what way is perpetuating traditional stereotypes of women not misogynistic or harmful? Why can't women object to societal terms that define them in terms of farm flu stereotypes?

Because it's perpetuating myths of both sexes!

@RootyT00t

Decisions such as breast removal should not be an option until the person is at least 25 and should have undergone intensive therapy.

@pumpkinbump

No *@RootyT00t* the child should not be affirmed in their delusions, the child needs professional psychological help.

Ok.

Now in the real world where even if mum seeks that, that could take 18 months, what do you propose I do in that time when the name and gender is changed on my register?

Refuse? I'd lose my job, and I'm sure you wouldn't support that.

Tell mum what I think?

Tell the head what I think? I'd be sacked for being transphobic.

Then I'd have all day every day to sit at home on message boards rather than being out working with these children.

Can you see the problem yet?

[quote pumpkinbump]@RootyT00t

Decisions such as breast removal should not be an option until the person is at least 25 and should have undergone intensive therapy.[/quote]
Based on?

@pumpkinbump

No *@RootyT00t* the child should not be affirmed in their delusions, the child needs professional psychological help.

What happens when a child is 23 and wants to do it? Stand outside the hospital shouting no you can't?

@RootyT00t

I have a serious question.

My job role causes me to work with a non binary name changed child.

What do I do? Refuse to acknowledge this? Use the original name?

Or do people only do that who think it's woo woo woo with no real experience of this and are going on what they read on the internet?

Perhaps next time I see mum at parents evening I could tell her what PP affirmed that she is a shit parent.

Or do I accept it by day and deny it at night? Because those of us actually working amongst it are doing more than flinging insults on a board.

I'm not a TRA. I'm a human in the real world trying to navigate one hell of a divide which this branch of feminism has to take some accountability for.

I get that TRAs can be hideous on social media etc - but they are not the ones hammering me and parents to completely disregard the living existing children in our day to day lives.

In that situation I'd refer to the child as requested. But I'd (within the limits of professionalism) challenge harmful gender stereotypes with appropriate examples/discussions, (depending on the situation) be a positive female role model and pretty much ignore the child's gender identity as much as possible - if it's the most interesting thing about them then they have much bigger problems than what pronouns you use.

Interesting that you don't agree with puberty blockers but agree with what sounds scarily like conversion therapy pumpkin.

Waltzing, that's what I do.

I don't refer to gender at all, in the same way I don't speak about mums and dads.

Or do people only do that who think it's woo woo woo with no real experience of this and are going on what they read on the internet?

I have plenty of experience of knowing trans and a couple of non-binary people. Very much like religion, I accept people have personal beliefs that are very real to them. I will respect their beliefs. I do not have to agree with them, or believe them myself. If I enter a religious setting, I will follow their rules, but away from it I do not have to acknowledge them. Same with those with gender preferences, it is not up to me to 'lecture' or deny a gender believer to their face when they clearly just want to get on with their day, but when the topic comes up elsewhere I do not have oblige any gender beliefs over sex. Gender is as much a woowoo belief as religion, but we can still be respectful of the people.

Because it's perpetuating myths of both sexes

And both of those stereotypes (not myths) are harmful to women in patriarchal societies.

So they disproportional negatively affect women

But you don't think women should object to them?

@BrumBoo

Or do people only do that who think it's woo woo woo with no real experience of this and are going on what they read on the internet?

I have plenty of experience of knowing trans and a couple of non-binary people. Very much like religion, I accept people have personal beliefs that are very real to them. I will respect their beliefs. I do not have to agree with them, or believe them myself. If I enter a religious setting, I will follow their rules, but away from it I do not have to acknowledge them. Same with those with gender preferences, it is not up to me to 'lecture' or deny a gender believer to their face when they clearly just want to get on with their day, but when the topic comes up elsewhere I do not have oblige any gender beliefs over sex. Gender is as much a woowoo belief as religion, but we can still be respectful of the people.

But we are far more respectful of religion.

I think we can agree here , Brum.

I just get very irate at the 'no the child will not be affirmed'. Excellent idea, but in principle, in the real world, I'd be jobless and homeless and pretty bloody unpopular. I don't necessarily disbelieve non binary, but if I did, I'd still have to work in a professional setting. Not all of us can just get irate on message boards but not actually deal with it in our day to day lives.

And not one PP would actually shout at a distressed child that it's woo woo and made up by stonewall and they need psychological help. Not one.

@WaltzingBetty

Because it's perpetuating myths of both sexes

And both of those stereotypes (not myths) are harmful to women in patriarchal societies.

So they disproportional negatively affect women

But you don't think women should object to them?

But this is where I get fed up on MN.

Women always lose out. Always the victim. Always the trump card. Always right. Never wrong.

Childrens fears and emotions should not be oppressed because women fear misogny. It's about education.

This scares me as a parent. I want my children to make there own choices as an adult but I think the world was live in forces into treating youthful fads or mistakes as serious life choices. At 14 you know squat about yourself and less about everyone else. I just feel that our tight as parents to say "don't be bloody daft" has been taken away. OP I hope it all works out, it must be incredibly tough, you are obviously a committed parent so do your best and try not to stay positive.