Baby's surname

[yvanka]

Pregnant with DC1, DP and I are both completely sure that we don't want it get married for various reasons. We are committed to each other but don't want marriage.

The only issue that this has caused is that he wants the baby to have his last name and I want them to have mine. He says that it's "tradition" but I've done some research and it's actually tradition for the baby to have the mum's surname if parents are unmarried, and I just really want to have the same surname as my child.

However, DP also feels strongly that he wants his surname. I would compromise on double barrelling (our last names go well together) but baby going by just his dad's last name at school etc, but DP thinks that double barrelling is common.

He would be happy for me to change my last name if I wanted but won't consider changing his so I don't see why I should. AIBU?

Disclaimer: he is an excellent partner and very loving and kind to me, so no LTB please. Just looking for any words of wisdom as I can understand how he feels and am a bit stuck on how to move forward with this with everyone being happy.

He's 8 years older. He doesn't want to get married. But still wants his own way over yours and won't compromise

OP, I hope you stay together very happily and have more children together, but one thing to consider is this. If you don't, and you (the younger partner) go on to have more children with someone else, I suspect you'd be very very glad that you gave your older child your surname, so that you could continue that and your children would have the same family name.

You aren't less important. If you take all the emotion out of it, it's utterly logical that your children should carry your name, because if you split, it's about a 95% chance they'll live with you.

I'm really glad your default is now your name. Basically, if he doesn't want to get married, that's part of it - it's what he's signed up for - children carry their mothers' name. He may only now be realising it but them's the breaks!

'Traditionally' babies do tend to have their father's name, because 'traditionally' women tend to change their name to the same name as that father.

And the vast majority of babies seem to have their father's names.

So what if it is or is not traditional: the point is that the unchallenged assumption that a baby will carry it's father's name and that a woman will change her name to a man's are both sexist.

That doesn't mean that people can't take a considered decision, but the assumption, and 'man's name' as default is a sexist custom, whether it is tradition or not.

So personally I wouldn't spend too much time researching.

it's just that his main point was that "traditionally kids have their dad's last name"

He’s right-they do...because traditionally they were married!

He can’t play the tradition card but then only pick parts of the tradition he fancies.

I wouldn’t go quiet on it now as he might assume you agree with him. Say the baby will have your surname unless he wants to compromise and then leave it. I have read about too many people v emotional after just having given birth, whose male partners persuaded them to not give their own surname and they’ve reverted it ever since. Don’t be that person

@CoalTit Yes I was definitely looking at it all wrong. I thought "we need to agree and he's not budging, I'd better think of some solutions", but actually you have all made me realise that we actually don't need to agree, I am well within my rights to go with the traditional option but if he'd like to suggest a sensible alternative then I am happy to consider it.

Will put that to him today and let you know how it goes.

"I can sleep when baby sleeps in the day"

Maybe. Some babies have nice long naps in their Moses/crib/cot. Others will only sleep when held or in motion (car/pushchair) and/or have catnaps. In any case, a daytime nap doesn't really make up for broken night sleep.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking all night wakings are always your job. Even if you're breastfeeding DP can still do nappy changes, winding/burping etc.

@yvanka SomersetHamlyn Thank you, that’s very kind of you to say smile the first part, that is - not so much the scathing analysis of DP grin he probably does sound awful from what I’ve put on here, but I omitted his many wonderful qualities as they aren’t really relevant to the issue at hand. I’ll give you thick-headed, but he’s far from misogynistic. I don’t know many men who would willingly take their partner’s last name. It is stupid, but I am not qualified to deconstruct a lifetime of gender conditioning so can’t be bothered going full feminist on him. Sorry if you consider that rolling over, I’d prefer to call it picking my battles.

I'm really sorry to disagree with you here, but he is not 'far from misogynistic'. Laughing at men who change their names and saying it's 'emasculating' is a really toxic and misogynist attitude.

I think you overestimate how widespread and common his attitude is. Many, many men are not like this. Assuming the baby would take his name is one thing. Mocking at 'emasculated' men is another.

You say you can't be bothered to try to undo a lifetime of gender conditioning. You are having a baby - either a son or daughter - who (all being well) will be raised by him. I have both a son and a daughter and I know how much they learn from both parents about expectations. Are you really happy for either a son or daughter to be raised with his attitudes?

You talk about 'picking your battles'. This 'battle' is hugely important - not in and of itself, per se, but for everything that it means and represents. If you want to give your son or daughter the chance of being raised without the horrendous misogynist assumptions that your partner has, now is the time to take a stand.
If you 'roll over' now, you've set the tone for your entire lives as parents together.

I think DP assumed that the baby would have his last name as that’s what his parents did with him. When I suggested double barrelling, he was caught off guard so automatically said no. His mouth works faster than his brain sometimes, possibly related to his ADHD, and the “common” excuse will have just been the first thing that popped into his head.

Yeah, that's not why he laughs at men who change their name and calls it 'emasculating', is it? That's not a slip of the tongue or caused by ADHD.

Anyway, I promise that I thoroughly scrutinised this man before letting his sperm anywhere near my egg and concluded that he is wonderful. You will have to either pop round and interrogate him or take my word for it grin

I'm sure you think he is wonderful. I think you may underestimate how much his attitudes will affect you and your child(ren) as you raise them.

"Laughing at men who change their names and saying it's 'emasculating' is a really toxic and misogynist attitude."

This

He only laughed about it with me in private, our friend wasn't there. He also never said it was emasculating, I said "he would find it emasculating" in response to the poster who suggested it, as I know he would.

Whether he laughed in front of your friend or not is really nothing to do with anything. And the fact that you, rather than he, used the long word doesn't surprise me.

But you are focusing on an irrelevant point and ignoring the rest of the very long post, and the much broader and more important points about his misogynist attitudes, your acceptance of them, and the implications for you and your future children.

Ok, I'll be going now.

Thank you to the posters who provided helpful advice, and especially to the unbelievably perceptive armchair psychologists out there who are able to provide detailed and confident insights into people's character based solely on two sentences they've read (and misunderstood) about them online!

How amazing that you know my own boyfriend better than I do, and are so confident in your verdict that you would actually argue with me about my own real life experiences.

Your gifts are wasted on Mumsnet, definitely start charging for these services.

My point is that any partner or husband or wife could become a completely different person in 10 years and do things you'd never expect like have an affair or hit you, I want to be able to get away easily

This makes no sense at all. You can get away easily from marriage, you cannot get away easily from shared parenting.
You have it all wrong, OP.

Good luck OP hope he proves us all wrong 🤞🏻

@Originalusername2021

Good luck OP hope he proves us all wrong 🤞🏻

Yes from me too.

Will put that to him today and let you know how it goes.

@yvanka how did the conversation go?

I wouldn't count on being able to sleep when your baby sleeps during the day. When mine were babies especially the newborn stage they never slept for more than 40 minutes at a time.

What did he say, @yvanka?

I'm not sure I agree with posters that it's always as cut and dry as 'kids are far more of a commitment than marriage so why do one and not the other'.

I'm sure in some cases that would be true. In others not so much.

My parents divorced when I was a young teen. They didn't co parent at all really, in fact they haven't spoken now since I was about 14. As opposed to my Dad who's now coming to retirement age and facing having to pension share with his ex wife of many years ago who cheated on him and left him after 20 years of marriage. I'm sure he'd say marriage had been the biggest burden in his circumstances.

(And before anyone jumps on it, my Dad was the RP).