Baby's surname

[yvanka]

Pregnant with DC1, DP and I are both completely sure that we don't want it get married for various reasons. We are committed to each other but don't want marriage.

The only issue that this has caused is that he wants the baby to have his last name and I want them to have mine. He says that it's "tradition" but I've done some research and it's actually tradition for the baby to have the mum's surname if parents are unmarried, and I just really want to have the same surname as my child.

However, DP also feels strongly that he wants his surname. I would compromise on double barrelling (our last names go well together) but baby going by just his dad's last name at school etc, but DP thinks that double barrelling is common.

He would be happy for me to change my last name if I wanted but won't consider changing his so I don't see why I should. AIBU?

Disclaimer: he is an excellent partner and very loving and kind to me, so no LTB please. Just looking for any words of wisdom as I can understand how he feels and am a bit stuck on how to move forward with this with everyone being happy.

@FamilyOfAliens I believe we were speaking in terms of which is a bigger commitment to your partner.

Well I think you need to give him a history lesson on tradition for unmarried parents.

Double barrelled or yours I'd say, and I say that as a person that has been questioned more times than I care to remember at airports because one child had a different surname. Pain in the arse carrying all the documents with you. We did live in Europe and so travelled back to UK frequently.

Double barrelled. Has to be.

So what happens if everyone has double-barrelled names. Double-barrelled has a child with double-barrelled, then what? How do you pick what bits to keep and drop. What a nightmare. Where does that all end?

@HoppingPavlova

Double barrelled. Has to be.

So what happens if everyone has double-barrelled names. Double-barrelled has a child with double-barrelled, then what? How do you pick what bits to keep and drop. What a nightmare. Where does that all end?

When people come out with this one I always wonder how thick you think your children are/will be, that you assume they'll be totally flummoxed by this problem. I sort of assume mine will be able to find some sort of satisfactory name solution if they want to marry - I hope so, as if they find this insurmountable life is going to be very hard for hem...

How do you pick what bits to keep and drop. What a nightmare.

I guess the same way people who only go with one name for their baby currently decide if mum's or dad's gets dropped? Except that it's the name owner who gets to decide.

I’m married but didn’t change my name. Am also expecting our first in July and have agreed that the child will take his surname but my surname will be the child’s middle name. Ask him if he would accept his name as the middle name, it’s a compromise of sorts but may not solve all the issues mentioned here.

@fib11235 why did you decide on the middle name option instead of double barrelling? Are you not concerned about taking the DC abroad etc and being questioned as mentioned upthread?

He can't play the traditional card if not married! Baby is given your surname at birth so just keep it that way.
Without being married you will be more vulnerable if anything goes wrong it's normally the mother who has to sacrifice a career should child be I'll or disabled ( yes this does happen ). in such circumstances the relationship is also more likely to brake down this is why marriage does give you more financial protection.

@yvanka

Haha I really didn't intend for this to become a thread about the pros and cons of marriage, but seeing a lot of strong opinions.

without it you are vulnerable to huge financial disadvantage for you and your child should you ever split up

What do you mean, @partyatthepalace? I won't be at all vulnerable.

Because you won't have the same claim on his income and pension should you split up (or if he should die). Keep in mind that having a child tends to impact the mother's income far more than the father's, and of course you never know if you child will end up with SN and need more care.

As I said, and I expect many others have, you can always go to a solicitor and draw up agreements to cover most if perhaps not all the protection marriage gives you.

So I really would do that if I were you.

You guys sound quite separate, which is cool - but never underestimate how much having a child changes your world.

I'm quite surprised you think having a child is a lesser commitment than getting married. You can divorce the husband at later stage but there's no getting away from them once you have a child together surely??

In no way am I saying getting married just don't get that point if view that's all.

@LittleLadyCece Marriage is harder to get out of so I consider it a bigger commitment. All the paperwork, negotiation, splitting of assets, legal fees, house sale, dozens of random admin bits like changing your name back and closing joint accounts, it all drags on for months before you're finally detangled and sounds very stressful.

With a child, the entire commitment to DP would be over as soon as I've packed my stuff and left. Easy. Obviously we'd have to stay in sporadic contact to coordinate DC stuff for the first few years, but it's just necessary interaction not any kind of commitment.

[quote yvanka]@LittleLadyCece Marriage is harder to get out of so I consider it a bigger commitment. All the paperwork, negotiation, splitting of assets, legal fees, house sale, dozens of random admin bits like changing your name back and closing joint accounts, it all drags on for months before you're finally detangled and sounds very stressful.

With a child, the entire commitment to DP would be over as soon as I've packed my stuff and left. Easy. Obviously we'd have to stay in sporadic contact to coordinate DC stuff for the first few years, but it's just necessary interaction not any kind of commitment.[/quote]
All the jobs you list as having to be done if you married and then divorced are things most adults do every day. There can be more admin involved in dealing with a death of a parent.

I’m really puzzled that the prospect of having to do this admin in the event is divorce is what puts you off getting married.

And you can’t “get out of” being a parent in the same way that you can get out of a marriage. I’m really surprised you see it that way.

Having a child isn’t a commitment to your partner. It’s a commitment to your child. You can co parent and live completely separate lives. It always flummoxes me when people think they have some commitment from their DP because they have a child together. My responsibility to my DH would stop if we split up unmarried, my responsibility towards my son both legally and morally continues.

Marriage is the commitment to your partner, nothing else. Heck even a mortgage together is a commitment to a property, not each other. I know couples who split with a mortgage unmarried and kept paying it off together while barely speaking for years.

It does amaze me you’re willing to have a child with someone when you balk at committing to them but everyone’s different and you have to do what’s right for you. Personally I wouldn’t have wanted to bring a baby into a household with parents who weren’t committed to one another or who were afraid of it like the way you speak about your boyfriend. But your life is yours and mine is mine and we’re all different.

@FamilyOfAliens

And you can’t “get out of” being a parent in the same way that you can get out of a marriage. I’m really surprised you see it that way.

The OP doesn’t want to get out of parenting.

Parenting and running a house / household are different things. She has her own property and earns her own income.

Look at the number of women on MN who are in abusive relationships but stay because they have nowhere to go, no assets, no independent financial security.

In terms of financial independence and housing, not being married means the OP can disentangle a household quickly and know that she is secure.

I do think, OP, that there would be complications and admin around access and maintenance payments, same as if you were divorcing.

I get really exasperated with MNers insisting that marriage ALWAYS benefits women. It doesn’t.

I didn’t marry, we co-parented equally, both kept our careers going, both made the (willing) sacrifices of working 4 days a week each in the ore-school years, took equal responsibility for sick days etc. You can look at the stats and say “how do we do things differently”.

I always earned a bit more, I had bought a flat as soon as I could and built up My equity and my pension as a conscious protection against the challenges that women face. So now I get my equity back, and hang on to all my pension. I would be much worse off now, had we married.

We aren’t stupid. We had wills. POA. Insurance. You need those things if married anyway.

So. Yes, marry if one of you will be a SAHP or compromise financial independence through parenting, but each case needs to be looked at on its merits.

And you can’t “get out of” being a parent in the same way that you can get out of a marriage

Please show me where I said anything of the sort

You’ve already got and issue that you’ve felt strongly enough to post on an Internet forum about and the baby isn’t even born yet. I think you are understanding how difficult he is going to be to coparent with, together or apart.

I don't have the same view as you OP but I do think you have been very open to listening to others points here. A refreshing thread! Good luck with whatever you decide.

@yvanka I find you very confusing. On the one hand your posts are wonderfully articulate, you write clearly and intelligently, you sound like a very sharp and independent woman.

On the other hand you are having a baby with a man who sounds like the most reactionary, thick-headed, misogynist idiot ("he laughs at men who change their name, he thinks it's emasculating haha" - Haha? Really?) and you sound fine about not only doing that, but willing to lie down and roll over for his moronic, egotistical demands.

I can't square the two aspects at all. I want to believe you're for real. But I am struggling to do so now.

I know this is not a thread about marriage, but that you see having a child together as a lesser commitment than marriage is laughable.

A couple who marry then divorce, will obviously have to disentangle finances etc. but they can then move on and never have a thing to do with each other for the rest of their lives.

You are having a child, which ties you to this man for the next 18 years in terms of regular contact. But in reality for life, unless the DC decides not to see one parent. You are honestly deluded.

• Marriage is harder to get out of so I consider it a bigger commitment. All the paperwork, negotiation, splitting of assets, legal fees, house sale, dozens of random admin bits like changing your name back and closing joint accounts, it all drags on for months before you're finally detangled and sounds very stressful.

With a child, the entire commitment to DP would be over as soon as I've packed my stuff and left. Easy. Obviously we'd have to stay in sporadic contact to coordinate DC stuff for the first few years, but it's just necessary interaction not any kind of commitment.*

Having a child is by far the bigger commitment. Once the marriage is over and the divorce is finalised it’s done. With a child it’s never done. You will always be tied to them in some way. And co-parenting positively when they’re young isn’t going to be simple, just read the threads on here. And even as they’re adults there will still be times you will hear of or see each other. A child is a lifelong commitment with the other person, a marriage isn’t. Not that I’m saying you should get married, I understand your reasons for not doing so, just that you’re minimising the complications of having a child together if you separate.

I would be pissed off that he just demanded his way with no compromise. This is the first major life change you’re having to navigate together. Having not got married and each owning your own homes, you haven’t had to go through the stress of those situations and it’s usually in the stressful situations like these when you find out a lot about a person. And the fact that he is refusing to compromise with you I would take as a bad sign. It shows that he thinks his feelings/opinion matter more than yours.

@yvanka

Haha DP would never change his last name to mine, he would find it emasculating. One of our friends did and he thought it was hilarious.

Oh jeez one of those. Fair enough he doesn't want to change his name to yours I guess, but finding it emasculating and hilarious? Is his masculinity that fragile

@Originalusername2021

You’ve already got and issue that you’ve felt strongly enough to post on an Internet forum about and the baby isn’t even born yet. I think you are understanding how difficult he is going to be to coparent with, together or apart.

Should say underestimating - not understanding.

OP you are right, he is wrong. Traditionally in the UK, children have the mothers surname. This is only the same as the fathers surname if the fathers surname is the same as the mother's because they are married. There's an easy process to change a child's surname when you change your own at marriage because it was assumed an unmarried couple would give the child her surname and then on marriage both child and mother would need to change name.

So the starting point is your child is having your surname. The compromise is a double barrelled name. (Not then known as dads only at school, known as the double barrelled until they are old enough to decide if they want to drop half, usually at secondary level).

It is seen as common now to have a double barrelled name as instead of being a sign you are aristocracy, its just viewed as a sign your parents aren't married, and that's still looked down on a bit by older people.

If your DP has a problem with it, is it really that he has a problem with having a child unmarried? You said you are against marriage and want to easily leave if things go wrong. Is he as happy with this? Perhaps he needs a bit of reassurance that you planning your finances on the premises you can leave easily isn't a sign you plan to leave easily!

You are willing to compromise and he isn't which is a shame. Stajd by your guns as that is the only option that is fair to both of you. Also like a previous poster said I don't understand why you wouldn't want to be legally and financially tied to your partner but are happy to be tied to him for the rest of your child's life. It doesn't all have to be joint accounts and one family pot of you were to get married, that wouldn't have worked for myself or dh and maybe wouldn't for you either. Best of luck with your pregnancy and I hope your oh comes around to whst is a fair compromise.