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Original poster

Do you think the English, if given a vote, would vote for independence from the rest of the UK?

685 replies

Kendodd · 15/02/2021 13:23

Yabu - No they wouldn't
Yanbu - Yes they would

The break up of the UK seems high chance to me, maybe 60/40 to be voted for within the next ten years. They don't ever seem to ask the English what would you personally vote?

OP posts:
BidensWingWoman · 16/02/2021 16:10

The reason politicians in England aren't calling for a vote of independence, is that they don't want it.

They want the UK to remain united.

Now, considering BoJo has made a lot of noise about how is Scots are taking England's money, you have to wonder why that is...

Pan2 · 16/02/2021 16:11

huge financial support from England.

Well, if Scotland is such a drain, why on earth do the English argue to maintain the union?

It's a rather moot and arrogant question too OP. The English will have no say as to what's left of the UK.

empties · 16/02/2021 16:14

Think there is a bit of a misunderstanding here. England is the dominant partner in this union which for some is a forced union or at least disputed. From this perspective England is already independent ie suits itself and expects every one else to fall in line .If the other partners are dependent it is because it has suited the England /UK /GB until now.

DGRossetti · 16/02/2021 16:14

The reason politicians in England aren't calling for a vote of independence, is that they don't want it. [] They want the UK to remain united.

Notice how what the people want doesn't enter into it.

As per usual.

redpencil77 · 16/02/2021 16:26

@BidensWingWoman

The reason politicians in England aren't calling for a vote of independence, is that they don't want it.

They want the UK to remain united.

Now, considering BoJo has made a lot of noise about how is Scots are taking England's money, you have to wonder why that is...

The extortion via the Scots of Scexit to keep them in the lifestyle they have become accustomed to
redpencil77 · 16/02/2021 16:27

@empties

Think there is a bit of a misunderstanding here. England is the dominant partner in this union which for some is a forced union or at least disputed. From this perspective England is already independent ie suits itself and expects every one else to fall in line .If the other partners are dependent it is because it has suited the England /UK /GB until now.
No, Scots became u ited with Englamd because they were close to bankruptcy. Wales similarly a few hundred years before that
DGRossetti · 16/02/2021 16:28

The English will have no say as to what's left of the UK

Bit of a boo hoo there isn't it, if you consider Scotlands situation ...

redpencil77 · 16/02/2021 16:29

@Pan2

huge financial support from England.

Well, if Scotland is such a drain, why on earth do the English argue to maintain the union?

It's a rather moot and arrogant question too OP. The English will have no say as to what's left of the UK.

Many don't want to, thank you
redpencil77 · 16/02/2021 16:31

@DGRossetti

The English will have no say as to what's left of the UK

Bit of a boo hoo there isn't it, if you consider Scotlands situation ...

England has plenty of say, no need to feel sorry for England, it's Scotland we should pity with its woke laws
AnotherGuest · 16/02/2021 16:31

Could we have a vote for London to be separated from you all?

No more whining about London being the centre of everything/given every privilege/all the government care about/full of champagne socialists and selfish millionaires with holiday homes in Cornwall spreading covid etc etc.

Grin
DGRossetti · 16/02/2021 16:32

No, Scots became united with England because they were close to bankruptcy. Wales similarly a few hundred years before that

A bankruptcy forced on Wales by English blockades, of course.

DynamoKev · 16/02/2021 16:36

@AnotherGuest

Could we have a vote for London to be separated from you all?

No more whining about London being the centre of everything/given every privilege/all the government care about/full of champagne socialists and selfish millionaires with holiday homes in Cornwall spreading covid etc etc.

Grin

Works for me.
apalledandshocked · 16/02/2021 16:37

I think there would be many baffled and tedious discussions about what the difference between the UK and England actually was*
*I know this i quite an anti-English comment but I am English so hopefully its OK

NuniaBeeswax · 16/02/2021 16:51

England/the English would be well informed from the nationalists to know where to vote if it came to it, it came as a shock to Scotland/Wales/NI when Brexit played out that a poll suggested English people asked said they didn't mind if they went their own way. It went right agaibst the narrative many in those countries perceived as being true, that the English were desperate to hang onto them. Why would anyone want to hang onto anyone if they were going to be rude and tell deliberate lies as we saw in the run up to the 2014 referendum?"

I have read and reread this post and have no idea what you're trying to say. How does that answer my question? No one is stopping England from having their own vote on leaving the UK if that is the will of the English people. I personally couldn't care less; I am not English so what's it to me what they do?

Wtf is this "narrative"? Acting like we in Scotland are somehow wounded that people in England might not care what we do is hilarious. Why SHOULD they care? (Though the gleeful posts about how Scotland/Wales/NI will shrivel and die like they deserve to should they dare get too big for their boots implies that there are many who DO care.)

redpencil77 · 16/02/2021 17:09

@AnotherGuest

Could we have a vote for London to be separated from you all?

No more whining about London being the centre of everything/given every privilege/all the government care about/full of champagne socialists and selfish millionaires with holiday homes in Cornwall spreading covid etc etc.

Grin

As London once belonged to Mercia, you would have a shock that you are not in the south anymore!
redpencil77 · 16/02/2021 17:11

@DGRossetti

No, Scots became united with England because they were close to bankruptcy. Wales similarly a few hundred years before that

A bankruptcy forced on Wales by English blockades, of course.

Yes? So? Retrospectively putting today's outlook on the past, are we?
LexMitior · 16/02/2021 17:12

Ouch

DGRossetti · 16/02/2021 17:13

Yes? So? Retrospectively putting today's outlook on the past, are we?

No, putting the facts into the past, welcome or not.

redpencil77 · 16/02/2021 17:20

@DGRossetti

Yes? So? Retrospectively putting today's outlook on the past, are we?

No, putting the facts into the past, welcome or not.

But so what? The Welsh have had control of the country since the 15th century - Henry VII. If it was to be corrected it could have been. Picking and choosing facts to fit. - but then again, fake news seems to be normalised these days
DGRossetti · 16/02/2021 17:24

But so what? The Welsh have had control of the country since the 15th century - Henry VII. If it was to be corrected it could have been. Picking and choosing facts to fit. - but then again, fake news seems to be normalised these days

Sorry I blinked.

My point was that the entire reason Wales became bankrupt or close to it, is due to the less than friendly nature of the English blockade. So trying to portray the English dominion of Wales as some sort of altruistic gesture to help the Welsh is disingenuous to say the least.

It's not unlike setting fire to your neighbours house, and then using the fact you put the fire out to take possession.

1Morewineplease · 16/02/2021 17:24

I'd be very sad to see a break up of GB.
I can't see how it would be beneficial to anyone , if I'm honest , and I'd worry that it would lead to segregation and hostility.

That being said, there are a few regions of England that would like to be independent of England. Should they also have a vote? How will it all end?

As to the UK... I don't know if I'm saying the right thing here, so shoot me down, please, (but explain EXACTLY why) but I feel that the good people of all Ireland should decide on their future.

I know we have quibbles but surely we should all be together, given that we're now basically, touting for ourselves.

( Hard hat is donned.)

DGRossetti · 16/02/2021 17:25

I'd be very sad to see a break up of GB

How about the UK ?

BidensWingWoman · 16/02/2021 17:34

Great Britain is the name of the island. I certainly hope that nobody is planning on breaking that up!

Original poster
Kendodd · 16/02/2021 17:45

Yes I would be sad to see the break up of GB (as a union, not physically obviously), less sad too see the break up of the UK as mentioned up thread.

I remember during the Scottish independence referendum it did trouble me that the Scottish were not only voting for independence for themselves they were also voting for the break up of the UK and the other three nations had no say in this. Giving us a say also wouldn't have been right but it still troubled me, I don't know an alternative though. I worked out that, given that there are about 4 million voters in Scotland, If they'd won by one vote, 2 million people would have voted for and caused the break up of the UK, that (perhaps) the vast majority didn't want, tens of millions of people lives would have been affected by something they didn't (or couldn't) vote for and didn't want.

I also thing the Scottish referendum was very badly done, in that I think for a change of such magnitude, you need a super majority, not just a simple majority. Constitutional changes SHOULD be hard to make and need to take a big majority of the people with you. I would say the same for the Brexit referendum. Unfortunately, the president has now been set and I think the break up of the UK will be the result at some point even if the majority of the electorate (taking into account those who didn't vote) don't vote for it.

OP posts:
LexMitior · 16/02/2021 17:59

Well you can experiment with the name - technically if Scotland left, there would not be Great Britain, but I think you can still have the United Kingdom.. it just runs a bit differently

The United Kingdoms of England and Wales and Northern Ireland. So we are still the UK, but we aren't "Great Britain".