Do you think the English, if given a vote, would vote for independence from the rest of the UK?

[Kendodd]

Yabu - No they wouldn't
Yanbu - Yes they would

The break up of the UK seems high chance to me, maybe 60/40 to be voted for within the next ten years. They don't ever seem to ask the English what would you personally vote?

The United Kingdom in a much changed multiple polar world lead by the USA, EU (if they can remain united) and China kicks way way above its weight strategically because of legacy and inertia more than anything else. Historically with an imperial colonial empire extending up to a third of the globe the UK had dominating influence. This leaves all the legacy British (not just English) colonial Commonwealth. Luckily English as a language is used in variant form in the USA, Australia and Canada etc. This alone offers much more legacy influence than just strategic soft powers. I am sure the globe would be very different if say the USA originally adopted Spanish or even French given their role in North America along with the Spanish and Mexicans.

The UK most strategic above weight utility to the globe is being a UN permanent (whatever that may mean in the distant future is not assured). Here the UK as with the powerful relative military punches way way above the current weight classes.

Economically the UK (80% England) is still within the global top 10 on GDP and current 5th or 6th and very much within G7. If we as in the UK post Brexit can join the recent Trans Pacific Partnership 11 then that along with trade links back to the EU27 would give the UK some sort of wealth creation stability value and mutual markets.

Hypothetically can or should England take over as sole representative? I am sure the UN with more powerful nations like Japan and Germany would very much like to swap seats at the high table as we continue in peacetime.

Luckily English as a language is used in variant form in the USA, Australia and Canada etc

Luckily?! I don’t think we (former invaded nations) had much choice.

Up until the Scottish referendum I thought we were all one family rubbing along nicely. The ref then brought the underlying feelings to the core.

The more I see of Nicola Sturgeon the less bothered I am about the breakup. We have our own shower of shite in Westminster but NS and Alex Salmond are no better, perhaps worse.

For me it’s like living with a partner who threatens to leave all the time and constantly puts things down. At first you are shocked and scared, then you start to get used to it and then you wish they’d get on with it and leave, even though things will be rough. After they’ve gone you are glad if the peace and quiet.

The point is that the SC is about geopolitics - how useful is England to the remaining members? It might not be - but I don't think you can still carry on referring to "Britain". It would not exist. And those things with names, institutions would adjust themselves.

But the "British" identity is lost politically if Scotland or England leaves. Effectively you would have the "Former British Commonwealth" - which actually reflects reality a bit better. I don't think the majority of the English are interested or bound up with the ambitions of politicians internationally. The issue is really that politicians like the clout, the general population don't care to a great degree as to whether the British Prime Minister can walk into a room with their nukes on their shoulder and all the stuff we've retained since 1945 when the British Empire was an actual thing, whereas now, its a museum piece.

"For me it’s like living with a partner who threatens to leave all the time and constantly puts things down. At first you are shocked and scared, then you start to get used to it and then you wish they’d get on with it and leave, even though things will be rough. After they’ve gone you are glad if the peace and quiet."

And from the other perspective it's like having a partner who constantly dismisses your feelings, makes decisions for you because they don't think you can be trusted to make them for yourself, and when after trying to tell them you're unhappy and being ignored then feigns wide eyed innocence and claims to not understand why you'd ever be unhappy?

Absolutely not! Over hundreds of years we invaded and subjugated our near neighbors at tremendous cost and effort. Those countries and cultures are firmly anglicized at this point, with very difficult to sever economic and cultural dependencies. It's not possible to turn back the clock.

@LongPauseNoAnswer

"Luckily English as a language is used in variant form in the USA, Australia and Canada etc

Luckily?! I don’t think we (former invaded nations) had much"

Wow an indigenous First Nation American, Inuit or aborigine! Amazing. Your original languages, culture needs more prominence and respect. It is a privilege to come across someone from such a heritage.

Wales, I'm really not sure about. I think they know which side their bread is buttered

What exactly do you mean by this? Which way is the Welsh bread buttered?

What exactly do you mean by this? Which way is the Welsh bread buttered?

Yes please tell us PP

No, and I certainly wouldn't nor would any of my family of friends. It makes me really sad that Scotland might. Mind you, I have speculated on the consequences of their independence (if it goes that way): Northern Ireland would join them and Wales would follow fast. We'd have the Congregation of the Celts.

Then Cornwall would join with the Bretons, and perhaps Devon would ask nicely to be allowed to play there.

And of course there's Berwick, which I'm sure declared itself independent sometime in the last 100 years. And Stroud which rejected coin of the realm for a year as an experiment some 30 years ago......

In fact, I wonder whether we might just do better splitting even more and running the place like America with Counties in place of States.

I seriously doubt many English people are that bothered - and as others have pointed out; there seems to be widespread ignorance of what the UK actually even is.
I have spent time in NI, Scotland and Wales and loved every minute, but I do see that being largely ruled from London is often sub-ideal.

As an English person I think other nations should have independence if they wish but I see no particular point in English independence.

What we're really suffering from is the destruction of local democracy, started by Thatcher and continued by all subsequent governments. We need more local devolution and less reliance on one big city, which with the best will in the world, is unlike most of the rest of the UK.

I hope they wouldn't. I'm Welsh and would never vote for independence, we are stronger together and we've seen throughout this pandemic the problems devolved governments cause and the constant one-upmanship certain political leaders have tried to score over each other.

If I'm completely honest I'd do away with the Welsh Senedd full stop but that's just my opinion.

I do find it amusing how Scotland keep pushing for a vote for independence again and now Wales are trying to jump on the bandwagon yet no one gives England a vote for what they want. Surely fair is fair and they should get a vote as well?

@OneToFive

Absolutely not! Over hundreds of years we invaded and subjugated our near neighbors at tremendous cost and effort. Those countries and cultures are firmly anglicized at this point, with very difficult to sever economic and cultural dependencies. It's not possible to turn back the clock.

I thought it was other way round, when Queen Elizabeth II died, the Scottish King James took over the English throne and that the current Queen Elizabeth II is descended from him?

I know English invaded and fought Scotland...all kinds of border wars. But ultimately the two countries unified when Scottish King James took the English throne. Or am I missing something?

Bad typo! Sorry, when Queen Elizabeth the I died,...then King James

No, that was in 1707 with the Act of Union.

[quote ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia]@LongPauseNoAnswer

"Luckily English as a language is used in variant form in the USA, Australia and Canada etc

Luckily?! I don’t think we (former invaded nations) had much"

Wow an indigenous First Nation American, Inuit or aborigine! Amazing. Your original languages, culture needs more prominence and respect. It is a privilege to come across someone from such a heritage.[/quote]
And what countries are included in the etc.? Yeah all the rest smartarse.

@PlanDeRaccordement , re you "missing something" yes if you look at things through the lens of royal lineage. They were not border wars, they were primarily long term strategic efforts to make Scotland a vassal state, and eventually own it ... and guess what? It worked!!

Same for Wales, only it took a lot less time and effort for us.

Today it's a democracy and the people with the most votes (who also have economic power) decide what happens. And guess what? It's the English people

"I do find it amusing how Scotland keep pushing for a vote for independence again and now Wales are trying to jump on the bandwagon yet no one gives England a vote for what they want. Surely fair is fair and they should get a vote as well?"

Who is stopping them?

Some people in Scotland. Also the country where the SNP refuses to tell how many sexes there are...

Yes that was quite funny with H Yousaf, who is quite smart. But I think his desperate effort to ignore biology is a good reason not to want to be aligned with Scotland culturally (the SNP are changing that legally, remember and it will affect Scotland), and why the rest of the UK is different in its mentality. Once we stop sharing ideas and laws, then the difference is legal and society follows. Scotland is separating itself.

@allNuniaBeeswax ... re Wales ... Exactly! Just like Scotland they can have a vote if they want. But those countries are firmly anglicized at this point, add that to the economic ties and huge financial support from England and it's clear the majority will want to stay.

Btw, I really like Scotland, did Masters in Uni Glasgow Comp Sc dept, one of the best in the country! Fantastic scenery and great for holidays, etc. Just as North Sea oil was a very valuable resource, it is very possible that offshore wind me be another valuable resource for these islands in the future.

@zigaziga

I wouldn’t vote for it, no.

I’d rather Scotland not leave the union but I wouldn’t be devastated about it.

I agree. Depends on how much aggravation petty nationalist politics stirs up from Scotland, Wales, NI.

@NuniaBeeswax

"I do find it amusing how Scotland keep pushing for a vote for independence again and now Wales are trying to jump on the bandwagon yet no one gives England a vote for what they want. Surely fair is fair and they should get a vote as well?"

Who is stopping them?

England/the English would be well informed from the nationalists to know where to vote if it came to it, it came as a shock to Scotland/Wales/NI when Brexit played out that a poll suggested English people asked said they didn't mind if they went their own way. It went right agaibst the narrative many in those countries perceived as being true, that the English were desperate to hang onto them. Why would anyone want to hang onto anyone if they were going to be rude and tell deliberate lies as we saw in the run up to the 2014 referendum?

@LongPauseNoAnswer

Luckily English as a language is used in variant form in the USA, Australia and Canada etc

Luckily?! I don’t think we (former invaded nations) had much choice.

Indigenous are you, or settler from English speaking country? Either way you personally benefit from speaking English