Do you think the English, if given a vote, would vote for independence from the rest of the UK?

[Kendodd]

Yabu - No they wouldn't
Yanbu - Yes they would

The break up of the UK seems high chance to me, maybe 60/40 to be voted for within the next ten years. They don't ever seem to ask the English what would you personally vote?

@LexMitior

Yes - the point is that being a country does not mean anything legally in the context of a national referendum. We would have needed a different constitution for that.

Phew at this post.

DG you are being very irritating.

Understand the point and answer the question.

What was a fair outcome in your head?

No, we are stronger together. The system of devolved govt seems to work well.

I'm on page 3 of 9 but holy fuck I've never seen so much anti scottish sentiment in my life. Not all of us here north of the border hate England. Some of us are sick of the fucking whining and mere sound of wee fuckin nippy.

Just because the rabid snp supporters want another waste of money referendum for independance doesnt mean we all do.

It's suddenly dawned on me how much fun being a Brexiteer was.

Wish I'd twigged 4 years ago.

I am based in global cosmopolitan London with a population and economy larger than all outside England. "We" even supposedly have our own .London website domain which I never use nor seen post London 2012 Olympics.

I am all for UK unity but also pro choice.

What about all the British overseas territories and dependencies?

Then should the British Commonwealth alumni club be canceled?

And what about the British royals?

There are some challenging connotations to this question of independent post Brexit England. Not a simple solution if that is there is a problem to solve in the first place.

do they also accept the blame?

Not personally. I wasn't there... But of course we are aware that Scotland played a part. In what way should we accept blame? How do English people accept the blame?

@DioneTheDiabolist

What should have happened then? The vote not adhered to as it implied NI and Scotland voices didn’t matter?

@MarshaBradyo, in a proper, grown up referendum there are usually stipulations regarding a minimum majority and a majority being achieved in all or most nations. So that what should have happened. When Westminster decided not to have these safeguards, they effectively denied the other countries a voice. As @DGRossetti has said, 55 million people deciding what 5 million people can and cannot do with their own country is not really democratic. Nor does it indicate that we are part of a "union".

Can you give an example of a referendum where this happened?

I'm on page 3 of 9 but holy fuck I've never seen so much anti scottish sentiment in my life

New here ?

@cazisalittlenuts

I'm on page 3 of 9 but holy fuck I've never seen so much anti scottish sentiment in my life. Not all of us here north of the border hate England. Some of us are sick of the fucking whining and mere sound of wee fuckin nippy.

Just because the rabid snp supporters want another waste of money referendum for independance doesnt mean we all do.

God the amount of loathing the other way.

I’d have Scotland stay many would.

It is a bit pointless accepting the blame in that way anyway. The majority of Scottish and English people who had to join the navy etc so as to create an empire won’t have been having a wonderful time or seeing the benefits of it.

I'd vote against it. I think both Scotland and Wales ought to consider what they would be exchanging union with England for. I think Sturgeon is dangerous - some of things she has tried to introduce are not positive for Scottish people (named person policy for example). I'd also like to know more about her involvement in the Salmond scandal. I consider there's a danger in Scotland of being so focused on separation from England they might be jumping into something which would deny them freedom rather than grant it.
I'm not certain I'd want Drakeford having anymore say than he has already, either.

It should not be about love or hate. That is daft. Nationalism is daft, because if you are a small nation then you will limit yourself, and if you are a big nation, you cause much damage (history instructive on this point).

English independence is being thought about politically. If the relationship between England and Scotland degenerates further (it will) then this is actually sensible to think about what it means and what it means for funding, infrastructure, resources, tax and so on.

@DGRossetti not new here no, more of a reader than a poster, but I've been starkly reminded why I never usually get past page one on these threads.

This particular north of the UK resident loves all our fellow countrymen even when you do beat us at rugby!

Can we not just all band together and shove the SNP on a desert island with no internet or phones or boats or anything. Would make life so much better up here!

@Stripesnomore

Can someone explain why they think Scotland was forced into a union.

My understanding was that Scotland wanted to get into a union after it got itself into a financial predicament when its colonisation attempts in the Americas failed. But someone else might have a better explanation.

"Scotland" was not in financial difficulties, but many of the nobles who ran the country were, after investing in the Darian scheme, which was deliberately undermined by the English government. Add to that the Alien Act 1707, and the motivation is clear. There were riots in the streets.

We’re still European.

Geographically, yes. Politically, I am no longer a citizen of the European Union. I liked being a citizen of the European Union. I even liked the burgundy passport. And I like the weird confection that is the United Kingdom. OK, the UK flag is a bit of a mish-mash but nothing's perfect. I don't blame the other segments of the UK for not being happy with the Westminster mob, but we poor English don't even have a devolved government as a buffer for some issues at least.

As long as our trident missiles come home to England, then yes I would vote for it!

I live in England, would vote to keep the union but don’t think England should have the opportunity to vote as whatever England decided would be the result purely due to numbers alone unless Scottish votes were weighted in some way to allow for the greater number of English voters.
It would be like the 27 EU countries also voting along with the U.K. to decide Brexit. Actually that would have been interesting!

But one politician shouldn't be the make or break for the decision! Whatever her involvment was in the Salmond thing.

It's very likely that post independence, SNP would not have as big a majority as they do now. Whoever the figurehead is right now is irrelevant to the long term prospects of independence or staying within the Union!

And while it looks like some dodgy stuff went down, people seem to forget that Salmonds own defence said his behaviour was inappropriate with women. His defence was he behaved badly, but not THAT badly. I mean, I really don't understand why so many people are quick to back his corner and would like him to be back campaigning for independence. We can do better than him.

What a great question! It has certainly made me think. I am not in the business of flinging insults around but, as someone with no links or ties to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland - ie only English - I have been firstly dismayed and secondly alienated by the recent rise in dislike for the English within the Union. Sometimes, as a gut reaction, I have thought 'well, go away then, if you hate us so much'. I am confident England would do well enough on it's own. But no, I basically support the Union so, all things considered, I wouldn't vote to leave. I was so glad when Scotland voted to stay in.

Thanks Hirples.

For those not in the know, Scotland didn't become part of the Union because England and Wales forced us. It is because some rich Scottish twats wanted to become even richer by building a Scottish empire and getting other rich Scottish twats and Scottish Banks to bankroll it. It monumentally failed and then same rich bankers and twats had to go cap in hand to England to bail out the country economically. Thing is, there was no voting by democracy back then. It was a feudal system and most folk were poor and subservient to the landed gentry. Many clan chiefs were and still are landed gentry so what they said and did was pretty much it for everyone else.

Some of the Scottish natives who support independence are anti-English but they are also twats. Most are anti-westminster.

What does Scotland contribute to the rUK?:

• 34% of natural wealth (wind, wave energy, water, timber, fish, oil and gas (but less so now);
• Scotch whisky makes up 21% of all UK food and drink export contributing £5billion per annum to UK coffers
• up to 70% of UK fish is landed in Scotland
• Scottish people pay taxes just like everywhere else in UK - this goes to Westminster, not Holyrood.

If folk hate the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon so much then the best way of getting rid of them would be to vote for an independent Scotland because they wouldn't have a reason to exist after that and the electorate could vote for who they most align with without thinking it's a wasted vote (dreams of an independent Scotland with the Greens in power).

@HirplesWithHaggis said it more eloquently than me :)

I really don’t think the Welsh in general dislike the English. There sense of themselves as a nation is far more about the strength of their own culture and political contribution, not who they are in relation to the English.

[quote cazisalittlenuts]@DGRossetti not new here no, more of a reader than a poster, but I've been starkly reminded why I never usually get past page one on these threads.

This particular north of the UK resident loves all our fellow countrymen even when you do beat us at rugby!

Can we not just all band together and shove the SNP on a desert island with no internet or phones or boats or anything. Would make life so much better up here![/quote]
I'm not sure the Scottish electorate would agree...