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AIBU?

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Original poster

Do you think the English, if given a vote, would vote for independence from the rest of the UK?

685 replies

Kendodd · 15/02/2021 13:23

Yabu - No they wouldn't
Yanbu - Yes they would

The break up of the UK seems high chance to me, maybe 60/40 to be voted for within the next ten years. They don't ever seem to ask the English what would you personally vote?

OP posts:
Dearymesheila · 15/02/2021 16:29

@Timpeall

The Leave/Tory position throughout the Brexit campaign was a 'bah. who cares?' to any issue that was raised as being negatively effected by Brexit. Absolutely no consideration was given to Scotland. To see the Tories now be all 'Right, chaps. Now let's get to work on saving the union' is laughable.

The damage is well and truly done. Chaps.

There were plenty of Labour voters who wanted to leave! Huge swathes of them!
DastardlytheFriendlyMutt · 15/02/2021 16:30

@NotFabulousDarling

This thread is so full of nasty racism. I can't believe that some people are so full of hatred. Yep. I lived in NI for the last 2 years and I lived in Scotland before there was a DH. The idea that England should now chuck all the other nations aside like a discarded takeaway wrapper smacks of those blokes who get women pregnant then leave and don't pay maintenance. England got what it wanted. It plundered these countries when it suited them back in the day and stunted their development centuries ago, not giving these places any choice, and making the other nations dependent on England. Now some idiot nationalists say the other nations "don't bring anything to the union" and that England should gets to leave?? Er, no mate. They have a duty of care. This didn't begin with "ooh, you're a country on this island and so am I, let's get together, every day will be a party!" It began with invasion and bloodshed. I'm still horrified that England has sidestepped their responsibility in a lot of the rest of the former commonwealth, I really think they (and other European "empire" nations) should be paying huge reparations to the countries they screwed over and profited off the backs of. Glad there are so many decent people in England who would never go for this England leaving nonsense.
Agree with all this. Technically would it really be England going for independence as it was never a subjugated nation but rather the aggressor and architect of the Union (not like the others had much choice), so wouldn't it be a matter of England dissolving the union (semantics I know, but Scotland, Welsh or N.Irish, independence is definitely the correct term- not so sure thats accurate with England)
MarshaBradyo · 15/02/2021 16:30

@longwayoff

They voted for Brexit against all reason so I expect that something as stupid, backward, witless and dumb as 'getting our country back' would be equally appealing. God help us. I hope it doesn't transpire but if I see Farage wrapped in a crusader flag I shan't be surprised.
Where do you live? Do you want independence?
BlackBrowedAlbatross · 15/02/2021 16:33

There's much more talk of independence in Wales now than I have heard for years. YouGov had support for Welsh independence at 33% at the end of last year.

Exciting times - I would definitely vote for it.

DGRossetti · 15/02/2021 16:33

@MarshaBradyo

NI voted to stay, now we are bearing the brunt of this shitshow. How is this fair?

I don’t get this. I voted to stay. Do I say the same? Or Londoners if you want a bigger set. How is it fair on us Londoners - because it was a referendum with two possible outcomes yes or no. It isn’t weighted by area.

Do you appreciate the fact that London - unlike Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland - is not a country ?
DGRossetti · 15/02/2021 16:34

@BlackBrowedAlbatross

There's much more talk of independence in Wales now than I have heard for years. YouGov had support for Welsh independence at 33% at the end of last year.

Exciting times - I would definitely vote for it.

Well the road signs are already half way there ...
MarshaBradyo · 15/02/2021 16:35

Er yes

So DG what did you want the outcome to not be adhered too as you are moaning about it’s not fair? Like a child

Do you want it weighted to preserve your special idea of fairness because stamp foot you are a country

MarshaBradyo · 15/02/2021 16:36

If you were part of the democratic process you accept the outcome.

No matter how maligned you feel due to where you live.

Timpeall · 15/02/2021 16:37

There were plenty of Labour voters who wanted to leave! Huge swathes of them!

It's not about the voters.

My point is that Brexit implemented by a Conservative government. A government who were happy to bat away any suggestions that it might lead to the breakup of the union when they were campaigning on the EU ref. For that same party to turn around and say 'oh we're all about the union' is nonsense.

DGRossetti · 15/02/2021 16:38

@MarshaBradyo

Er yes

So DG what did you want the outcome to not be adhered too as you are moaning about it’s not fair? Like a child

Do you want it weighted to preserve your special idea of fairness because stamp foot you are a country

So what's the point of Scotland being a separate country ? Maybe pop up there and tell them they've had their day ?
LexMitior · 15/02/2021 16:38

Yes being a country does not matter in the UK, does it. No jurisdiction in the UK can be a nation state, with the rights that accrue.

I voted remain. But my side lost. I don't go all Trump supporter and start saying that the vote was unfair.

Campaign for a United Ireland perhaps - its down to a vote?

NetballHoop · 15/02/2021 16:38

I am very clear in my mind that we are all better off as a union. Trying to break the nation up into ever smaller parts is a recipe for failure.

@Skysblue I assume you don't mean independence for Northern Island, you mean merging into the Republic. I suspect this will happen though I'd rather it didn't.

TrufflyPig · 15/02/2021 16:39

I'm sure they would, anti devolution rhetoric is in full swing in the media as it is.

MarshaBradyo · 15/02/2021 16:39

Answer the question DG what outcome would have been fair?

Brexit but happening because various countries so no

MarshaBradyo · 15/02/2021 16:39

Not

Stripesnomore · 15/02/2021 16:40

Can someone explain why they think Scotland was forced into a union.

My understanding was that Scotland wanted to get into a union after it got itself into a financial predicament when its colonisation attempts in the Americas failed. But someone else might have a better explanation.

LagunaBubbles · 15/02/2021 16:40

How is it fair on us Londoners - because it was a referendum with two possible outcomes yes or no. It isn’t weighted by area

Scotland is not an "area" of England. It is a separate country..

DGRossetti · 15/02/2021 16:41

My point is that Brexit implemented by a Conservative government. A government who

had a chance to create an all party and/or all-UK approach to Brexit, and decided not to.

For that same party to turn around and say 'oh we're all about the union' is nonsense.

I would respectfully suggest that the previous point rather shows there is no "union". Merely an old-style marriage where the wife damn well does as she is told, and has no existence apart from her husband.

MarshaBradyo · 15/02/2021 16:42

@LagunaBubbles

How is it fair on us Londoners - because it was a referendum with two possible outcomes yes or no. It isn’t weighted by area

Scotland is not an "area" of England. It is a separate country..

You are missing the point

So if Scotland is a separate country what then?

Democratic vote overturned? As people are upset it’s not fair.

LexMitior · 15/02/2021 16:42

Yes - the point is that being a country does not mean anything legally in the context of a national referendum. We would have needed a different constitution for that.

DGRossetti · 15/02/2021 16:43

@LagunaBubbles

How is it fair on us Londoners - because it was a referendum with two possible outcomes yes or no. It isn’t weighted by area

Scotland is not an "area" of England. It is a separate country..

Apparently that means fuck all now. Well, according to some.
DioneTheDiabolist · 15/02/2021 16:43

What should have happened then? The vote not adhered to as it implied NI and Scotland voices didn’t matter?

@MarshaBradyo, in a proper, grown up referendum there are usually stipulations regarding a minimum majority and a majority being achieved in all or most nations. So that what should have happened. When Westminster decided not to have these safeguards, they effectively denied the other countries a voice. As @DGRossetti has said, 55 million people deciding what 5 million people can and cannot do with their own country is not really democratic. Nor does it indicate that we are part of a "union".

LakieLady · 15/02/2021 16:43

@NotFabulousDarling

The amount of people on this thread who think Ireland is part of the UK is serious craic. Good luck paying for things in GBP in the South or trying to get a job in Dublin with your national insurance number! As for the North (Northern Ireland as it's also known), that's a very complicated situation and shouldn't be decided by hamfisted single-issue voters in England who are swayed by things written on buses (buses which were built in Northern Ireland).
I fully support the reunification of Ireland and think that partition was stupid and has led to nothing but misery and bloodshed. And I think it will happen in time, as demographic change is likely to lead to NI being majority RC in the next few years.

And I think if a majority of Scots or Welsh want independence, they should have it, too.

And there's a strong case for an England-only assembly to deal with matters that affect only England, to make decisions on those matters that are currently devolved to the Welsh and Scottish assembly.

It's the only sensible response the Tam Dalyell's "West Lothian question".

midsomermurderess · 15/02/2021 16:44

What country has ever ceded territory like that? Despite seeming to not like us Scots very much, the Conservatives seem very keen to hold on to us. And England alone will be in a cold and lonely world, certainly given its recent behaviour.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 15/02/2021 16:44

Scotland did more for the Empire proportionate to population than England did

Given that the Empire's generally perceived to have been a bad thing, do they also accept the blame ...?