To refuse to work with him after this

[CurlyReds]

I’ve been a SAHM for a couple of years and I’m due to return to work. DH has been thinking about self employment for some time and asked if he took the leap would I consider working with him as his assistant? I agreed - I figure if it doesn’t work out I can always get a job at that point.

We’ve arranged for my mum (bubble) to babysit every Sunday so we can set up his new business and he can teach me the stuff I’ll need to know. Yesterday (Valentines Day) she was babysitting and we were in the spare room office, supposed to be working but he was trying to snog and feel me. I said no, my mum is downstairs and she’s giving up her time to help us do work, not for you to get your kicks.

So he lost his temper and said there’s no point setting up a business if I don’t want a relationship with him, he stomped off and took my mum home. So we couldn’t do any work after that because we had to look after DC.

I’m now thinking I can’t work with him if he’s going to fire me every time he doesn’t get his own way. I also think it’s blackmail and controlling, saying he will remove my job opportunity if he doesn’t get his own way. Truthfully I’m wondering if I should just divorce him after this behaviour.

It can work as long as everyone is professional
He’s not so it can’t

When is the last time you applied for something?

Being a PA is far more than just answering the phone and diary management. It is a highly skilled role that takes time and effort to become good at which you seem to think anyone can do with a bit of part-time work.

I was a PA in a FTSE 100 company and I can tell you, I worked hard to get to that point and the recruitment process for my colleagues was as intense as for other roles. I've been out of that area for over 10 years now and I know that I couldn't just step back into it, despite my previous experience.

I got into the field through temping and a lot of pp's have given you some excellent advice on this. Approach some agencies - yes, the job market is tough but get your CV onto their books and you don't know what you could be offered. Make sure your Office skills are up to date ie Word, Excel, Powerpoint… how many words can you type a minute? Can you use shorthand/write as people speak to ensure accurate minutes from meetings? Other people have mentioned payroll or HR - lots of online courses for this.. would be a good use of your 4 hours.

Like unless your husband is a lawyer & planning to make you his para-legal I call BS on this job being anything like the duties a real office manager would actually have. Because there is no office to manage.

I also think from your husband trying to turn the work day into a romp in the “office” shows that he is also naive & sees this as an appealing way of escaping the drudgery of his life. It’s fun to plan a business & be your own boss. Now he wants to play saucy secretary too!

And maybe that is what has pissed you off - that this is so important for you & he is just playing games & treating work like a joke.

If he was so serious about this business would he not have made the most out of the hours you had free to make progress on his business goal?

This business idea sounds like some form of escapism for you both.

What is your degree... is it something that could be boosted with something postgraduate to make it applicable go the current jobs market... particularly science/tech/STEM subjects, medical fields, teaching, proof reading/editing etc?

If you want an admin/business/management/HR job then having a degree in a random subject may be of less help to you compared to someone with more vocational qualifications (and work experience) relative to that field.

I think there are two things here

1. your husband’s decision to go self employed... is this right for your family? If he needs your unpaid help to get it established, can you spare that time on top of everything else? Will it damage your relationship if you can’t separate your professional working relationship from your intimate one?

2. Your career - look at this objectively and separately from his business... work out what you want to do, upskill etc. It’s ok to help out in the family business and you might make it work for you, but I would not have high expectations that it will advance your career outside of your own business.

Obviously your update has clarified that you feel it's this job or supermarket job. Perhaps it's insecurity though & a lack of confidence hence why I asked when you last applied. Perhaps you're not a good fit for Asda but another supermarket role might lead to something else.

@CurlyReds you said if he dies you would have nothing...

Surely you have wills and an endowment policy to cover the mortgage.

Why not start your own business OP instead of starting one with DH?

Also running your own business is all encompassing & will likely make him even less hands on
I actually think I have more chance of some equality when he’s his own boss and can choose to be available at bedtime or do the school run. Currently his employer is totally inflexible so I’m solely in charge of DC.

Most people I know working in admin jobs have postgraduate degrees or very recent bachelors degrees
With all due respect, if an applicant's CV hits my desk with 10 year old degree, 6 years supermarket work, then 4 years working break, I would question why HR shortlisted you
So you see why I’m unlikely to get hired unless I’m self employed. I’ll be able to do some online training courses in the evening but expensive formal qualifications are ruled out.

What was your degree in? Why didn’t you pursue it at job level?
Business Computing. Nobody would hire me. Because of my personality not my qualifications.

Why can't he move to another employer in another area?
It would mean moving hundreds of miles away from home, family and friends.

I think the problem is here that you saw those 4 hours as finally a chance for you to move out of the drudgery of your life (and how realistic that is isnt the point) and to move forward and learn and use your skills. He saw it as a chance to have sex.
Yes. Exactly. I’m angry and insulted, and I feel degraded and disregarded.

@Snog

Why not start your own business OP instead of starting one with DH?

Ooh - that's an interesting proposition! Could this work for you, OP - you'd then really be using your brain in a way that works for you and only you!

@CurlyReds

I dunno, I guess I just saw this as an opportunity for us both. DH hates his employer, I feel sick at the thought of going back to Asda, we could be self employed business owners and I could actually make use of my brain. But it’s no good if he’s going to sack me when he doesn’t get his own way. I’m also really angry - my whole life is serving the needs of others, DH doesn’t understand that I deserve to be able to work and those 4hrs are for me, not for me to serve him even more.

Have you said this very thing to your DH, in these words? Are you ever stilted or inarticulate when talking to your DH, or are you able to be direct, as you have been here? It may help to write these things down in this really straightforward manner and give that to your DH

I actually think I have more chance of some equality when he’s his own boss and can choose to be available at bedtime or do the school run. Currently his employer is totally inflexible so I’m solely in charge of DC.

I think that's pretty unrealistic

@BrightYellowDaffodil

Do you have skills to do the office manager role? Do you understand Accounting, Payroll, HR?

I have a degree. The 4hrs on Sunday for six months are supposed to be for him to teach me the stuff I need to know. In return he gets an office manager without paying the going rate, enabling him to be self employed.

I say this gently but if a CV landed on my desk for someone saying they had PA experience but it was clear that they were working for their partner in their partner's business I wouldn't really count that as 'proper' experience. I'd be looking for someone who had worked as an independent employee.

If you've previously worked for a supermarket, are there any office jobs there that you could apply for there? If not, I would get some proper training - not 'being shown how to do things' by your husband but verifiable and certified courses or qualifications that you can show to an employer that says what skills you've gained. Again, I say this gently but with very little track record and experience that's nebulous at best (and attained in a family business) a degree doesn't count for much. If you want to shift into an office job, get some quantifiable skills and be prepared to start at the very bottom.

On the family business front, I would absolutely NOT do this. Not only is it unlikely to give you the experience you want but your husband seems to be a massively controlling arse. If he was genuine about supporting your career then he'd be using the time to help you, not trying to get his jollies. His behaviour alone shows why you need the ability to get a job elsewhere and some financial independence.

Agree with this. I don't think working as a 'PA' in your husband's business looks good on your CV or gets you a good foot in the door for an office role in the way you think. I think you'd be better off applying for entry level office jobs- i.e. reception and then work up to PA?

Obviously your update has clarified that you feel it's this job or supermarket job
I honestly do. Genuinely, I feel like this is my only opportunity to not be on a checkout for the rest of my life. That’s why I’m so angry at DH being unsupportive.

And maybe that is what has pissed you off - that this is so important for you & he is just playing games & treating work like a joke
Yes. I feel like this is my chance and he’s just pissing about. Wanting me to spend even more of my time doing things for others instead of myself. I’ve had enough.

Surely you have wills and an endowment policy to cover the mortgage
Yes. That won’t pay the bills for the next 50 years.

your husband’s decision to go self employed... is this right for your family? If he needs your unpaid help to get it established, can you spare that time on top of everything else?
If he waits much longer he’ll be too old. Then he’ll be trapped in his job till he retires, never accomplishing what he wants to do. I’m bored actually, I’m desperate to do something other than look after DC, especially with school starting in September which will give me more time.

What real office manager works 4 hours per week?
Currently I have 4h a week while my mum babysits. In September when lockdown is ended and my son starts school I’ll have 5 days a week.

You chose to stagnate & not use your degree to leverage a better job
That’s nasty. I actually spent years doing additional courses in my own time, improving my skills, applying for job after job. Nobody would EVER hire me. So don’t make out like I haven’t tried or worked hard.

I'd steer very clear of working with him - mixing work and relationship in a boss-employee relationship seems to be a recipe for disaster - see extensive advice on this on the askamanager blog. I'd see the red flag for what it is, and look for another solution.

I wouldn't be so sure of that OP. My DP owns a business, before that he had a job in the same industry for a global company managing the Scotland and Northern England operations. Despite working long hours and having lots of responsibility before, it comes nowhere near the amount of hours he puts in now. The first 6 months of trading wasn't too bad, but since then he just gets busier and busier. He has a business partner and 3 employees and despite taking more people on his workload just continues increasing as the business grows. It really is all encompassing. He now earns very good money but won't take more than 5 days off for us to go on holiday etc so we don't get to it enjoy it really. He sold the idea of going self employed to me by saying he would be able to pick and choose his hours as I wasn't very supportive of him at first, as he was leaving a comfortable well paid job and was the higher earner. Looking back I can't believe how naive I was. If DC are off sick it's still me that has to take time off work on the basis that a few days off work will cost him the equivalent of my monthly salary, or more. My DP is a workaholic, your DH may be different, but if the first few years of trading I think you need to be a workaholic to actually make it work.

@CurlyReds

Op, could there be another issue at play? Quitting your job to go self employed is a really risky thing to do financially The other option is to stay with his horrible current employer. Golden handcuffs, no similar jobs available in the region so he can’t switch jobs. He wants to be self employed and I’m willing to support him. If it fails we’ll sell the house and downsize. I don’t see why he should have to take their shit for the next 30 years.

I have a degree and had to start with the shit jobs too
Yes so have I. For ten years. I’m smart and qualified, I’m sick of not getting decent jobs. The only way forward for me is self employment because I’m sick of trying to convince someone to hire me, I need to make it happen for myself.

Ok, so go SE and earn some money, should not be hard with your degree from ages ago and no recent experience - but as you are smart I’m sure it will be fine And needing to make it happen for yourself isn’t the same as working for a man who thinks feeling you up during work hours is a good way to spend his time You both seem to have an unrealistic view of setting up a business, you shouldn’t do it just because you hate your job or think you are better than the jobs you are (maybe) capable of getting. It’s hard and takes a lot of setting up, can you/your DH sell your services or product? Is there a need? There is a lot to think about and apologies if your DH has done all this but all I have seen so far is him not taking it seriously and you both seeing it as an alternative to jobs you don’t like

OP, here's what I would do: use the time between now and September to get some headline admin qualifications (think ECDL and that sort of thing) I don't think you will find it hard and they might even be free..

Then in Sept, sign up with agencies and take anything, even the odd day here and there. Once you're in and working people appreciate you for your skills and not your interview persona (mine is also crap).

It would mean moving hundreds of miles away from home, family and friends.

It's not easy, my parents are immigrants & we have zero family here. But they didn't really have a choice.

Surely there must be some jobs your DH could do that aren't hundreds of miles away? Perhaps it's still worth for it 2 yrs to get a better job closer to family & friends.

Your update is really important, OP. It's not your technical skills that are causing a barrier, it's your interpersonal skills (I tried to find a respectful way of phrasing, my apologies if I failed). That's much harder to solve (and pretty unfair), and I don't think working for your husband will do much to solve it - even if you get interviews off the back of your experience, you'll still need to convince them to hire you at the interview.

Your computing background might be a really good way forward - if you can find a niche where you can do the work online, without much interaction, it could be a great for you. Could you learn how to program?

(There are also online PA services, but I suspect you need a lot of experience to be considered, and probably need to work for very low pay while you build up a reputation.)

Christ. You are married. This is a non-issue. Insane reaction.

Look, just go and talk to him.

You’re autistic (as can be seen in the way you write) so use that perfunctory outlook to see it as a contained incident mixed up with the excitement of your new shared venture. And move on.

Communication is everything.

@CurlyReds

Why don’t you just get a job? I don’t want another shitty supermarket job. This is my chance to get an office job and have a husband who’s a business owner.

If he values you at all in a place of work, he would want you to be an equal surely?
Technically I’d be a company director. He’d do the client work and I’d be in charge of operations and admin. It’s a better opportunity than the supermarket job I’ll end up in otherwise. But not if he’s going to be unprofessional and nasty.

I haven’t RTFT but you seem awfully superior about what employment you deserve, for someone who hasn’t worked in several years. Someone with drive and initiative could take that ‘shitty’ supermarket job and turn it into something, gain supervisor or managerial experience and make a lucrative career. You want a shortcut to a job that you think is worthy of you, by working for your creep of a husband as his PA. Sorry to tell you but if you came to me with that on your CV in a couple of years I would likely see it as a fairly non existent job, a bit of a tax dodge between spouses and not comparable to proper employment. I would look on it less favourably than the jobs you are sneering at.

In any case your husband clearly doesn’t see it as a real job given that he’s trying to spend working hours shagging you. I agree it’s disrespectful and gross. You need to get a job outside of the home and evaluate your marriage separately to that, but you also need to be realistic about your value in a competitive market and realise that you need to take what you can get at this point.

I think what’s becoming clear is this is really very important to you. It seems he’s not quite understood just how important, and how you perceive it. You see it as a real job opportunity just for you. . He doesn’t quite see it with such importance. He sees it as him going self employed and you doing the admi work associated with it.

That’s what’s caused the disconnect in your actions.

Have you tried recently to job hunt op? One benefit of covid is interviewing is by Skype etc so everyone is a bit awkward. Things like rapport, eye contact probably carry less sway (I changed job recently after an online interview)
I’ve seen your update - have you tried public sector where they will make adjustments in interview for disability.