To expect child maintenance?

[greysa]

Posting here for traffic.

Currently pregnant, not in a relationship with the father nor were we ever in a relationship. We have the benefit of not having split up or holding any sort of bitterness or resentment that that may have caused. We are friends and he is excited about becoming a dad for the first time. His parents are equally excited and have bought lots for the baby already.

Obviously we don’t live together, but he is adamant that he wants to be as involved as he can be. I have a good job but their maternity policy is rubbish so I will only be getting SMP for my mat leave, and I am anticipating struggling financially to begin with. I’ll probably only be able to return to work part time too, and I assume he will continue to work full time so shared 50/50 custody won’t be feasible.

I’m worried that by bringing up the topic of him paying child maintenance, that he’ll be offended and think I’m implying that he won’t do his fair share if that makes sense. I don’t want him or his family to think I’m being grabby, but I also need to try and plan for how I’m going to manage on my own, at least for the first 6-12 months.

AIBU to expect child maintenance payments to begin with on the basis that he won’t have baby overnight etc and I’ll be doing the majority of the care? I was thinking it could then be reviewed based on how often he has her overnight etc, and how much the parenting is really shared. It’s hard to gauge it at the moment before it actually happens as I’m not 100% sure what will happen with my work, and his. Never thought I’d be in this situation so have absolutely no idea what’s normal or reasonable, and he and his family really have been lovely and supportive and I don’t want to rock the boat if it turns out I am being unreasonable!

Don’t worry OP- none of this stuff occurred to me when I was pregnant with my first child. I’m sure most first time mums don’t understand the full implications on their career/income etc. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I would start to prepare for the high likelihood you won't hear from him once baby is here.
I would also contact a family law solicitor so everything can be on an official footing.
He sounds like one charming man I know of, who decided he needed to go to Australia travelling for a year when his on again off again girlfriend was 8 months pregnant.

It sounds to me like he's trying to work out how often he'll have the baby to work out how much he'll give you in a kind of pay per view way, I don't think he understands how this works at all

definitely realising now that I should have spoken to him about this way back when I told him. I just didn’t think it would go like this, maybe that’s naive but I just thought it would be easy to be friends and coparent without disliking each other.

Ok, I'll bite....

when you told him you were pregnant it's highly likely he thought:

1. Co-parenting = time spent and paying half for nappies etc

1. You have made the choice not to be in a relationship, so why should he support you*

*we know the money is for the child but 100% that's not how most men see it.

I hope this teaches him a lesson to take responsibility for BC in the future: he's now for 18+ years of paying you for a short fling, and you're probably in for the same of trying to get financial support.

What is your financial situation like OP?

I've been a single parent for 5 years since my son was a baby and have worked full time since he was 8 months.

Don't feel pressured to go part-time because you think this is what mums have to do. When you are on your own, financial security is so important. You don't have the luxury of someone else paying your bills.

@TeachesOfPeaches I earn a decent wage, but I have debt (around 10k in loans and credit cards, that I am paying off). 1k in a help to buy ISA that I’m trying not to touch. I just can’t see how I would be able to go back to work full time? Without paying for full time childcare that is, and then is it even worth it? I work in healthcare and it’s very much a 9-5, Monday to Friday kind of job so I couldn’t do weekends etc when maybe relatives could help out.

@MissSmiley

It sounds to me like he's trying to work out how often he'll have the baby to work out how much he'll give you in a kind of pay per view way, I don't think he understands how this works at all

spot on 🌺

@TeachesOfPeaches I hope that didn’t sound rude btw, I am genuinely interested to know how it’s possible!

Okay, as you are in rented accommodation and have only £1k saved for a house deposit and significant debt you may be better off going part time and getting universal credit top up payments to cover your rent. If your salary is low enough you will get help towards council tax, childcare fees etc.

Use 'listentotaxman' to work out pro rata pay and then the 'entitled to' calculator to see what you could get and if this covers your bills. Don't rely on maintenance payments.

Unfortunately this will have a big impact on your future earnings and hopes of getting a mortgage.

@TeachesOfPeaches yes, I think from my initial calculations I would be better off working part time and getting topped up with UC. Mortgage dreams were a long way off before the baby news anyway, not much I can do now! I’m just trying to focus on paying off as much of the debt as I can before baby arrives, and I’m also trying to save a tiny rainy day pot for any emergencies so I don’t end up in more debt. Luckily it’s all on near enough 0% interest for now.

Unfortunately as a single parent you have to sacrifice so much, poverty is a major risk and has the biggest negative impact on a child.

Nobody dreams about being a single mum on benefits but you do what you have to do. Good luck

I don't think courts order 50/50 care for breastfed newborns. There will be a significant amount of time when you will have primary care. I would suggest not framing it as your personal preference, but as what is best for the baby and what is legally most common. If he argues the point, tell him he is welcome to arrange mediation to discuss it, but if he does some research he will see he is unlikely to get 50/50.

I would suggest putting it this way to him overall (and in writing, in case you need to show in future your willingness to work with him):

1. This is what will be best for the baby (i.e., it's not about what he wants, but what is best for the baby). The baby will need to be with you most of the time but you are happy to arrange contact X times a week for X hours (whatever you feel comfortable with).

1. There are significant costs involved, both during maternity leave and afterward with childcare. This is what CMS suggests and it is the minimum you expect. You can agree with him that additional arrangements can be made down the road, but stay firm on this minimum.

1. You would prefer to come to an arrangement privately and you are willing to be flexible as things evolve. But a basic minimum of support needs to be agreed now so that you can plan ahead.

You are not being grabby, you are being a responsible parent. Keep repeating that to yourself!

Also it is really important that you start focusing on what he is doing, not what he is saying and what you hope might happen.

The situation with the scan says it all. He is very selfish. This is unlikely to change.

I'm sure he will keep talking about what he wants. Make sure you keep reminding him that the most important thing is what is best for the baby, not for him (and that's in a legal sense as well as morally).

This sounds like a shit show no offence. My friends been in a similar situation and this is what she did when she got pregnant by a fwb. For the first 6 months of maternity he saw the baby at her house 3x a week, no overnights and 2 weekends a month. He paid cms out of his wage and the days he saw the baby he provided the nappies etc. I don’t think it’s right you want him to supplement you going part time that’s your choice not a joint one. If you need nursery time to go back full time then you both pay half. If he was a partner then I’d understand but he’s just a friend or something to you and it was the choice you made to keep the baby . He doesn’t have to finance everything.

as you are in rented accommodation and have only £1k saved for a house deposit and significant debt you may be better off going part time and getting universal credit top up payments to cover your rent. If your salary is low enough you will get help towards council tax, childcare fees etc.

Yes, I had misunderstood your financial position - you may well be better off working part time, at least until your DC turns 3 and you get the 30 hours.

In your position I would be pursuing a maintenance claim ASAP because you will need that money.

I don't think he understands how this works at all

Why would he?

He had 'friends with benefits' sex, and she got pregnant. They both decided to keep it (i.e. she did, he really had no say as it's not his body) and now he's into 18+ years of paying for his child. Quite right, by the way, he should pay ... but I am pretty sure this isn't what he "signed up for".

Young men (still) need educating that a shag can have lifelong consequences. The OP is probably in for a long time of financial hardship as she clearly didn't think about it either. It's lose/lose.

@TheYearOfSmallThings

as you are in rented accommodation and have only £1k saved for a house deposit and significant debt you may be better off going part time and getting universal credit top up payments to cover your rent. If your salary is low enough you will get help towards council tax, childcare fees etc.

Yes, I had misunderstood your financial position - you may well be better off working part time, at least until your DC turns 3 and you get the 30 hours.

In your position I would be pursuing a maintenance claim ASAP because you will need that money.

But be aware your career will likely take a hit for this. It shouldn’t, but in reality.......

But be aware your career will likely take a hit for this. It shouldn’t, but in reality.......

True. But one thing I will say for the NHS, possibly because it is female dominated, your career will take less of a hit than with many other employers.

OP said healthcare, not NHS. NHS provides some enhancement to maternity pay so assumed that she wasn’t from mention of SMP only. The company car thing is also highly unlikely to be under NHS employment.

Even men in committed long term relationships often seem to think the financial burden must be borne by the women (see endless threads on this on MN for example) so I think you're going too truggle with this one. He might well be willing to meet you half way when it comes to actually buying "things" but I am not convinced he'll be interested in facilitating you in any way - eg paying part of childcare costs so that you can work or helping out while you are on reduced pay as a result of maternity leave.

He's also being disingenuous. Of course he knew he wouldn't have the baby when he was a newborn. If he had, he would not have allowed his parents to gift YOU with nursery furniture.

He's probably not a bad person, but 1000s of years of expectation etc and the fact that you are not, and have never been, in in a relationship is going to work against you here.

At a practical level, if you can get him to agree to going 50/50 for large purchases and to pay CMS from the start, with the agreement that you'll review it every time agreed contact increases, that will be a start.

I’d ignore any talk of going halves on things and instead apply for maintenance. Then you will get a regular monthly payment from him.
Any other financial, emotional, practical support is a bonus.

@TomHardyAndMe

OP said healthcare, not NHS. NHS provides some enhancement to maternity pay so assumed that she wasn’t from mention of SMP only. The company car thing is also highly unlikely to be under NHS employment.

Yes usually 6 weeks at 90% of pay, then months of half pay, then smp. NHS mat pay is not bad.

@CharlotteRose90 it is a shit show indeed. To be clear, I don’t expect him to fund my living costs so I can work part time. I really don’t expect much more than at least a decent maintenance payment from him. I was only highlighting the part time working as it’s something that I am having to plan ahead for, whilst he is currently sailing along thinking nothing needs to be planned in advance - well yeah, that’s fine when you know your income isn’t going to be affected. Hence why I needed to get him to think about child maintenance.

@wink1970 neither did I, but I am doing my research and trying to plan ahead. I’m taking responsibility because I have to. He seems to think it’s a choice. Not sure how relevant it is, but he never once suggested I terminate. He was nothing but positive about the pregnancy news, actually. Which is why I think I had my hopes up for a good outcome at the beginning, I think. I’d understand his attitude more if he had been against the pregnancy from the off.

I work in pharmacy, so contracted by the NHS but not employed by them so no enhanced maternity pay etc. I’d have jumped ship to the NHS if I’d known this was going to happen but, as someone else said, hindsight is wonderful.

Some very blunt statements from me:

• You do not want him at the birth, trust me. You don’t owe him that. It is better to be alone and focus on yourself than it is to manage a virtual stranger. Too much stress can actually hamper the birthing process. Do not do this. You don’t have to, and you don’t have to be nice.
• You will not want your baby to be away from you 50% of the time. You cannot conceive of this now because you don’t know how it feels to love your child, not really. It will get easier when they are a bit older but as babies you will find it very hard to be away from them, especially if you are breastfeeding (being away too long can have health consequences for you like mastitis).
• It is not your job to explain this all to him.

Ugh. I send a lengthy message explaining why babies can’t be away from their mums when they’re small, asking again about his expectations for the first few weeks when she’s here, I suggest he stays at mine for that time. The reply I get is ‘yeah I already said I would. It’s simple, I just want to see her as much as I can’.

I really don’t think he’s a bad guy at all. I just wish he’d try and see things from my perspective and understand how worrying the prospect of being a single parent is, financially and otherwise.