To expect child maintenance?

[greysa]

Posting here for traffic.

Currently pregnant, not in a relationship with the father nor were we ever in a relationship. We have the benefit of not having split up or holding any sort of bitterness or resentment that that may have caused. We are friends and he is excited about becoming a dad for the first time. His parents are equally excited and have bought lots for the baby already.

Obviously we don’t live together, but he is adamant that he wants to be as involved as he can be. I have a good job but their maternity policy is rubbish so I will only be getting SMP for my mat leave, and I am anticipating struggling financially to begin with. I’ll probably only be able to return to work part time too, and I assume he will continue to work full time so shared 50/50 custody won’t be feasible.

I’m worried that by bringing up the topic of him paying child maintenance, that he’ll be offended and think I’m implying that he won’t do his fair share if that makes sense. I don’t want him or his family to think I’m being grabby, but I also need to try and plan for how I’m going to manage on my own, at least for the first 6-12 months.

AIBU to expect child maintenance payments to begin with on the basis that he won’t have baby overnight etc and I’ll be doing the majority of the care? I was thinking it could then be reviewed based on how often he has her overnight etc, and how much the parenting is really shared. It’s hard to gauge it at the moment before it actually happens as I’m not 100% sure what will happen with my work, and his. Never thought I’d be in this situation so have absolutely no idea what’s normal or reasonable, and he and his family really have been lovely and supportive and I don’t want to rock the boat if it turns out I am being unreasonable!

@StopMakingATitOfUrselfNPissOff I actually don’t. There’s a generic one for all staff but my role is completely different to what the generic contract is for, and significantly higher up. Been doing it for about 4 years so probably a bit late to be asking for a contract now. It’s the same across the company. I remember thinking it was strange when I first started but stupidly didn’t question it.

@Viviennemary

I don't think nurseries take babies at 6 weeks old. You sound very young and naive. Have you thought this through properly.

What a thing to say.

@Windchangeface

financially he expects us to go ‘halves on everything

Here is what you do.
You work out your loss of salary per month during your mat leave. Let’s say that’s £800
You get a quote for a full time nursery place for a small baby (when your 6 weeks at 90% ends). Let’s say £1000 pm
You send him the following message.

‘I don’t feel comfortable leaving plans and practicalities until she is here. Sleep deprived and dealing with a newborn is not the time to be having these conversations. Let’s make a basic plan but allow for some flexibility, that’s the sensible thing.

I’m glad you agree we should split costs 50/50.
From her being 6 weeks old my pay will drop and I will lose £800 pm. We can split this and you can pay me £400pm or we can put her in nursery which would allow me to return to work. The cost of nursery will be £500pm each.
There is also the option for you to take shared parental leave and look after her whilst I return to work? We can work out how much pay you would lose and whether splitting this is possible?

Monthly expenses like nappies, wipes and clothes will be on top of that btw.

I’m so glad you are enthusiastic about being supportive and splitting things equally but I’m worried you’ve maybe underestimated the actual cost and commitment involved so really do think it’s a conversation for now not later.’

Op will get up to 85% of childcare fees paid by UC which mainly gets him off the hook for that.

Op will get up to 85% of childcare fees paid by UC which mainly gets him off the hook for that.

Op probably won't, I get the feeling she earns a significant amount and may be over the threshold for help. Don't assume all single mothers get childcare paid for as we don't.

@Babyroobs you have no idea of how much the OP earns, or if she has savings tht would impact UC entitlement.

As a single parent I did not get childcare paid at all!

You really need to stop thinking and acting as if he is doing you a favour, he isnt. Be direct, ask what maintenance he is planning on paying or ask what he earns so you can work it out. You need to know what your financial state will be post baby in order for you to budget and plan your life.

I would also strongly recommend you think seriously about reducing hours at work, the effect this will have on your life time earnings, pension and career chances will be massive whilst the dad will be able to continue as normal.

[quote JustLyra]@Babyroobs you have no idea of how much the OP earns, or if she has savings tht would impact UC entitlement.[/quote]
Ok yes my mistake. I guess I was thinking along the lines of op saying she would only get SMP which made me think maybe if there was no occupational maternity package it probably wasn't a great paid job and then her going back part time but yes I accept she may earn too much for UC.

But she does say it's a well paid job but poor maternity package so I apologize for my mistake !

I just think it’s too quick on here sometimes fo say “you’ll get X” when for all we know she could have 20k saved for a house deposit and all of a sudden there’s no entitlement.

OP be certain before agreeing he can be your birthing partner...

and you must be talking about CMS now... so he's prepared to start paying for his child immediately following birth 🌺

You've had some excellent advice on the financial situation greysa.

I think you re being very naïve about this man being your birthing partner. The role of a birthing partner is to support you. Full stop. Choose someone who will support you and advocate for you. That person has a role before the birth in building up their understanding of what can happen in labour and talking through with you how you see things playing out. It will be important for example for the midwifery team to know he is not your next of kin.

Parents to be usually have the advantage of having know each other for some time and so have a deeper level of understanding of how the other ticks. It doesn't sound to me that you have this level of relationship with this man and so I do seriously wonder how he can be a supportive birthing partner for you. He may well want to be present for the birth, but it is quite possible his focus is on the baby and not you.

You're being very thoughtful about his role in your baby's life and that is to your credit. He on the other hand doesn't seem to have educated himself on the details of raising a child. Remember the best way to judge how someone will behave in the future is how they have behaved in the past - and he hasn't come out shining from your account. It's all very well being laid back to the point of horizontality as a single adult; as a parent you have to make plans, back-up plans and back-up-back-up plans. Babies need total care, toddlers need feeding and teenagers need a taxi service. I think you would be doing yourself a massive favour to sit down and sketch out how things would look without any input from your baby's father; it may not come to it but it will help with those back-up-back-up plans.

I didn’t get a reply yesterday after I asked again if we could talk about things. So I sent another message this morning to ask what he meant by going halves on everything. I said that I had to plan ahead for a massive reduction in my income and figure out how I’m going to manage, that I can’t not plan that, that it’s not just my responsibility and so he needs to start planning ahead too. I pointed him to the CMS calculator for a starting point.

He replied straight away (funnily enough) and said how can he work out the maintenance figure when he doesn’t know how often he’ll get to have her, since we can’t plan that this far ahead? I said to begin with, he won’t have her overnight so he can use that as a starting point. I did say that once we sort out contact etc then it can be changed, but he needs to start to plan ahead. He then asked why he wouldn’t have her overnight. so I had to explain that small babies shouldn’t be away from their mum, and I don’t think I would feel comfortable with it. Why can’t he do some research and answer his own questions? Why do I have to spoon feed everything? This is exactly why I wanted to have this conversation with him, to see what he is expecting, and clearly it’s completely on a different end of the scale to my expectations. I’ve now asked him what he’s thinking about the first few weeks once she’s born with regards to staying at mine.

God, this is exhausting.

I’m really sorry if this sounds harsh but why have you waited so long time have this conversation? It would have been the first one I’d have had after discovering I was pregnant. The outcome would have informed my decision as to whether to continue with the pregnancy or not.

I’m sorry OP. You’ve got a tough few years ahead of you. Best advice I can give you is to start off assertive and know what you want to achieve before every single conversation you have with him. Never respond to his texts straight away- take some time to process what he has said/asked for and to decide what you want. MN is a good sounding board for things like this to help you work out how to deal with him. Keep as much communication as possible in written form- text/email. Don’t agree to anything without finding out the implications on you both immediate and long term.

Ideally you need to sit down with him and talk it through. I know there is little point saying it now but, for future reference, the time to have that conversation was the day you told him you were pregnant, and you both made the decision to have this baby.

He may not support you returning to work part time, and as long as he is prepared to cover half of the childcare costs, that would be reasonable on his part. He certainly is liable for maintenance though, and you need to be completely clear that you will be seeking that.

I agree with PPs who have suggested you back-up plan for his involvement to be much less (and less controllable) than you initially thought. It often turns out that way.

@VinylDetective to be honest, I hadn’t even thought about some of this, in depth at least, until recently. When I first found out I was pregnant, he was so supportive and I didn’t have any concerns. We agreed that we would see how things went, so we were still sleeping together etc and it’s only been since we called that off that I’m fully realising that I’ll be a single parent, and the implications of that. It just seems like anything that doesn’t directly affect him (ie, me being off on mat leave and losing income) isn’t an issue.

@JackieWeaverIsTheAuthority @TheYearOfSmallThings yep, definitely realising now that I should have spoken to him about this way back when I told him. I just didn’t think it would go like this, maybe that’s naive but I just thought it would be easy to be friends and coparent without disliking each other. I do need to start being more assertive.

If you wanted to, you could propose what you want to happen. The onus would then be on him to say if he wants to do something different.

e.g.

• He will come to stay with you for the first 4 weeks after baby is born to spend all of his initial paternity leave and some additional evenings/weekends with baby. He'll be there to support you in establishing a routine and breastfeeding. You'll expect him to deal with the majority of the housework.

• From 1 month to 6 months, he will have care of baby for X days per week, but all overnights will still be with you due to breastfeeding.

• Financially, he'll provide half of the shortfall of your normal pay over this period.

• After that, you could propose he takes X months parental leave? The months you do, he pays half of your missed earnings, and the months he does, you'll pay half of his missed earnings.

• Baby will be going into nursery when they're X months old. From that point onwards, he will be responsible for her care 2 1/2 days/week (including overnights?) - he'll either need to go PT or pay nursery costs (and arrange pick-ups/drop-offs). He can also have 1 day/weekend.

• All sick days will need to be shared 50:50. You can either strictly alternate, or be more flexible as long as he doesn't take the piss. (Be aware both of my kids spend ~3 months ill when they started nursery.)

I don’t necessarily think it’s reasonable to expect him to supplement your income beyond the first 9m/1 year of mat leave because you have gone PT. By all means he should be paying CMS but I don’t agree that you should be able to assert your plans and expect that he subsidise that choice.

I do of course agree that he should pay maintenance and that isn’t necessarily the bare minimum, especially when baby is so young.

It’s really disappointing that he hasn’t taken the time to educate himself. Could you both go to some antenatal classes?

Obviously put what you want to happen rather than my suggestions

www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/Resources/Looking-After-Yourself/Assertiveness

I think you might need to do what I did with my ex. Decide what works for you, then tell him the plan.

If he wants something different then that’s on him to say so. If/when he does you can discuss it and decide on a compromise if it’s needed, but there’s no point opening with a negotiation with someone who isn’t thinking about things from your side.

So for example, don’t focus on what he’s thinking with regards to him staying at yours. Tell him what you are thinking, with the caveat that things may change depending on the kind of birth you have, and let him tell you if he’s got an issue instead of you trying to work out his angle.

I just thought it would be easy to be friends and coparent without disliking each other

You are not alone my friend! And it won't necessarily come to dislike so much as mild disappointment and irritation.

Luckily it sounds like you are well supported and in good shape otherwise, so you will be fine. Just no need to tiptoe around his feelings or do all the work to stay on good terms. If he won't pay reasonable maintenance you pursue the legal process, while cracking on with your life and protecting your career so you are not dependent on him.

He may not support you returning to work part time, and as long as he is prepared to cover half of the childcare costs

Just a note of caution- if he is to be responsible for half the weeks childcare he may very well decide the baby will spend that half of the week with his mother instead so he doesn’t half to pay and this sets a precedent of the baby being in is care 50% of the time. It’s not something I would agree to personally.