To expect child maintenance?

[greysa]

Posting here for traffic.

Currently pregnant, not in a relationship with the father nor were we ever in a relationship. We have the benefit of not having split up or holding any sort of bitterness or resentment that that may have caused. We are friends and he is excited about becoming a dad for the first time. His parents are equally excited and have bought lots for the baby already.

Obviously we don’t live together, but he is adamant that he wants to be as involved as he can be. I have a good job but their maternity policy is rubbish so I will only be getting SMP for my mat leave, and I am anticipating struggling financially to begin with. I’ll probably only be able to return to work part time too, and I assume he will continue to work full time so shared 50/50 custody won’t be feasible.

I’m worried that by bringing up the topic of him paying child maintenance, that he’ll be offended and think I’m implying that he won’t do his fair share if that makes sense. I don’t want him or his family to think I’m being grabby, but I also need to try and plan for how I’m going to manage on my own, at least for the first 6-12 months.

AIBU to expect child maintenance payments to begin with on the basis that he won’t have baby overnight etc and I’ll be doing the majority of the care? I was thinking it could then be reviewed based on how often he has her overnight etc, and how much the parenting is really shared. It’s hard to gauge it at the moment before it actually happens as I’m not 100% sure what will happen with my work, and his. Never thought I’d be in this situation so have absolutely no idea what’s normal or reasonable, and he and his family really have been lovely and supportive and I don’t want to rock the boat if it turns out I am being unreasonable!

Men tend to think that they're contributing if they bung you the odd packet of wrongly sized nappies and a tin of out of date baby milk. They also start pushing for 50/50 very early because this will reduce their CMS contributions.

You need to start thinking about some ground rules before the baby arrives and also discuss money. Are you going to use a private nursery? These don't come cheap and he will need to understand that you'll want to return to work at some point and will need reliable childcare.

You read my mind, I just thought exactly the same. And I bet the interest in co-parenting drops dramatically too.

It goes one of two ways- either he’s no longer able to co parent due to “work changing his hours/shifts” or you’re suddenly an unfit mother and they want custody.

“You need to sit down and discuss what each of you expect/want to happen wrt work, childcare split and finances. Don’t present it as you asking for maintenance, present it as you both working out the specifics and practicalities of how you will parent this baby.“

That is great advice.

Don’t forget the impact you’ll be taking in term of career progression, pension contributions etc

@Dacquoise

Not to be cynical but he may want to be involved now but another partner/wife comes along, possibly more children and your little one might go down the batting order. Don't give away your rights to financial support. Set it up from the beginning.

Nailed it!

The CMS will arrange a set amount and you hopefully won't have to mention money. And if he's supportive he'll agree. Let them take care of it.

I think its reasonable to expect some financial contribution in the first year.

If OP is doing the majority of the childcare then it's reasonable to expect a financial contribution until the child is 18, not 1

Op it might be worth bringing in some kind of mediator/counsellor to work through with both of you - how you see co-parenting and all the issues that may present themselves.

I think that’s jumping the gun a bit. OP doesn’t know how the dad might react. I know if I was in a similar situation and the dad told me he’d arranged a mediator without even having a conversation with me it would set the tone for time to come. I’d be very upset.

He legally has to pay it so don’t even feel embarrassed about raising this. I would do a calculation online to see how much he legally should pay you and mention it to him.

It's not grabby at all. He should be paying maintenance if you aren't splitting childcare 50/50. Make it official by going to CMS. I'd say the same should apply with contact as well. Him "helping out where he can" isn't acceptable.
All childcare shouldn't fall to you either. You don't necessarily have to reduce your hours to part time either. If you go onto UC, you could get up to 85% of costs paid. The rest of the costs could be divided between you both so you can both continue to work full time.

U less breast feeding babies can be overnight with another parent before 1 or 2. Plenty of single nightshift workers children are happy, well balanced and stay with other parent over night for half the time. Sort out custody early because financial contributions will be influenced by that.
All the best with your pregnancy, take care.

It doesn’t matter if the baby was planned, he is financially responsible for his child. It’s really that simple. CMS is the absolute bare minimum the non-residential parent can and should provide.

Hi OP! I had an unplanned baby too. Dad hasn’t been involved (not going into it here I’ve made a thread about it)

If he wants to be involved- he can’t just be involved for the “fun” and not the responsibility. I think you need to meet up with him make a weekly budget of how much you think you will need and ask him to pay half towards the cost- for both of you. Your not working because your having his child so he has to take the responsibility of looking after you as well because if he didn’t get you pregnant- you would be at work.

I’m fortunate enough that I can manage on my own but if you can’t don’t be afraid to ask for help!

Be realistic though- treats and expensive things are going to have to go out the window for a while! But expecting him to contribute to keeping you and your child with a roof over your heads, fed and warm and able to bathe isnt unreasonable!

Is he going to be on the birth certificate?

Of course you should apply for child maintenance, and yes you should go down the standard route for this. If he wants/can pay extra on top then that's great if its financially an option. But you don't want to wait on his 'generosity' to decide what he can/will afford. If you come to an arrangement between yourselves and 6-8 months later he's 'oh well I'm really short this month!'. You can't end up in the position where baby is then struggling for lack of funds. Or even worse if say his parents bestow a really pricey travel system or something on you and he's 'well they paid £700 sooo'. And leave you struggling to budget for heating and rent. Plus it could also potentially effect your own benefit claim if you willing choosing to not apply for child maintenance. The system is there to help support parent/children who do not have an additional parent to add financial support or refuse to/cannot do. It's not there for people who can afford to pay but their child's other parent feels uncomfortable to ask for rightful financial contributions 🙄

Please please consider all options before going PT and potentially harming your career/pension contributions/independence/earning potential

I don’t know what you earn or what you do but there’s lots of people spouting UC etc. Look now and see what you can claim (if anything), make sure you have a full picture of your financial situation.

100% agree with cms. Unless he's a high earner it's not exactly generous anyway but the best thing about it is that it is an objective process at point of use. There's lots of threads on if the % is right, what it should cover, should it be accounted for etc but in the end, the amount is set and really there's no discussion to be had beyond that. If you know his earnings, put them into the online calculator and start the discussion. As others have says, it's really really important that he doesn't see this as 'helping out how and when he can'. This is an obligation that should be factored in as an expense before deciding what house / car / other kids he can afford in the future.

No wonder he's excited. Men usually are because they're not the ones doing the donkey work. You seem to be making all the sacrifices and the baby isn't even born yet.
Interesting you've got to 28 weeks and he hasn't brought up this discussion himself. His offers of support are woolly and his lovely parents shouldn't compensate for that. I suspect his idea of co parenting will also heavily involve them. How old is he?
Think long term too. What about your pension?

I think it’s possible that Dad hasn’t brought up maintenance cause he’s thoughtless and doesn’t understand the reality, rather than he’s a deadbeat.

My friend was horrified when, at 39 weeks pregnant with her planned child, she found out how much SMP was and that benefits weren’t available to her. She panicked and asked me how I paid my bills when on mat leave. My point being that people can be incredibly naive and not understand the reality of a situation until faced with it.

I think the poster who mentioned re support in the first year meant support in addition to maintenance. I.e support to mimic that in a family that are together as OP’s income will
obviously be reduced the most during that first year.

OP is it worth discussing contact now? I understand you might not want overnight stays but could you set out days with the view to them becoming overnight. I think it will stand you in better stead if that’s all done and settled and not adhoc when Dad does inevitably move on.

I'm not sure it's realistic to discuss contact prior to having a first child. Neither of them are going to have a clue what's hit them or which way is up and will have nonidea how long it's going to take to get feeding established or any kind of routine. It's not the same as a couple in opposite shift patterns as a pp said because the father in this case won't be around all the time and the child won't know them as well. It seems reasonable to get cms laid down as a principle and then figure out a regular pattern of contact a few weeks in, with the father (who sounds amicable with the op) being around a fair amount during the day / evening in those first weeks. I'm assuming he's not going to take 2 weeks pat leave but if he is and the op is either formula feeding or can express, he could potentially take the baby for a few hours through the day to help establish that bond and let the op sleep but at this stage I doubt either of them could realistically form a contact plan as there are so many unknowns, but cms is set.

It sounds like you have quite a bit of planning to do @greysa

Some suggestions:
Use a benefits calculator to work out what you are entitled to, both whilst on maternity leave, and once you are back at work. You can calculate against you current full time salary and various part time options if you wish.
www.entitledto.co.uk/benefits-calculator/Intro/Home?cid=0c262a9c-b268-406f-880e-e9db615c8c20

You might also want to check what your tax etc changes to on a part time salary... listentotaxman.com/

Look at what baby is entitled to from its dad. If you have any idea of his salary you can use the cms calculator. Unless he is a high earner or very low paid you are entitled to 12% of his gross pay. www.gov.uk/calculate-child-maintenance.

Child maintenance is not taken into account for benefit payments so you do not need to include that.

Having calculated both of those figures I'd suggest you do a budget- you seem to have done this at least in part anyway. You need to look realistically at what it costs you to live, and what additional costs the baby will bring and what additional funds are available. (Will you need to move once baby needs a room of its own?)

Whilst I think you need to be honest/open with him i would not recommend sharing your whole budget as you do not want him deciding what he will and will not contribute to or that you only need a small amount from him to break even on the provision of basics leaving you with no funds for some of life's luxuries.

I would also make sure you mention contributing to extras- nursery furniture, nursery fees, school uniform, clubs and activities etc. Whilst he does not by law have to contribute to any of this you need to sow that seed now perhaps!

Good luck!!

I'm not sure it's realistic to discuss contact prior to having a first child. Neither of them are going to have a clue what's hit them or which way is up and will have nonidea how long it's going to take to get feeding established or any kind of routine.

I’d imagine initially contact would need to take place at Mum’s house. That might mean holding the baby between feeds and letting Mum get a bit of self care. But I think Dad making himself available on certain days/times it will help Mum knowing she has some support and help Dad in laying down a firm routine of being a available for his child.

Oh and yes separate money from involvement. You are entitled to the 12% cms as long as little one sleeps at your house 7 nights a week. If/once they stay at his overnight he can get a reduction of approx 1/7th for each night each week they are at his. But clearly this will not be the case initially.

Talk to your midwife and then health visitor about healthy patterns for non resident fathers with babies. Alot will depend on how comfortable you are with him in your house as alot if the early recommendation are that he visits your house and you spend time together with baby - which works for some but not others.

You might also want to speak to a solicitor about setting up a residence order. Stating that you are primary parent. That also gives you the right to take little one abroad etc. And I believe gives the police the power to return the child to you if dad decides not to at any point. Not meaning to scare you but you read alot of stories of things going horribly wrong so having clear expectations from the outset is a good plan.

This is all really helpful - thanks so much.

He will be going on the birth certificate. There’s no question that he’s the dad, and he’s given me no reason to believe that he isn’t going to stick to his word so I wouldn’t feel that it was morally right to keep him off the birth certificate.

I do plan on breastfeeding, and he knows that so hopefully he will know that that means no overnight stays for a good while.

His parents have bought the nursery furniture which will be at my house rather than his, so again I think they and he know that I’ll be the resident parent.

I have messaged him and asked to have a conversation about how things are going to work when he’s free. He’s difficult to pin down, always seems to be busy with work etc, and is so laidback he might as well be horizontal so have a funny feeling he will play this off as something that can be left til later. But I think I’ll be firm in maintaining that I’d like to at least open the conversation up now.

Your responses have really helped me to get over feeling like I’m being unreasonable or grabby for wanting to find out how he plans to fulfil his obligation as a dad. I keep thinking of it as him ‘helping me out’ and think I need to get out of that mindset as I cannot continue to take on the full responsibility and burden, financially and otherwise, when he says he wants to be equally involved. He has just as much responsibility financially as I do, so I need to drill that into my head instead of feeling like he’d be doing me a favour by paying maintenance.