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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Childminder kicking out child for not being potty trained is she BU?

477 replies

minniemango · 14/02/2021 14:04

My niece is currently not able to attend her childminder as SIL isn't a keyworker. SIL has contacted childminder about care resuming from March 8th and been told she will only have DN back if SIL can guarantee she will have no accidents.
Is the childminder being unreasonable, is this even allowed?
DN is 5 and in Reception, no SEN.

OP posts:
00100001 · 14/02/2021 14:31

@minniemango

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?
Again.... Why would you want to send her somewhere she's seen as an inconvenience or is "forced" upon the adult caring for them? Confused

Yes, I agree it's very inconvenient and seems unfair... but really?

chestnutSquash · 14/02/2021 14:32

Poor child. This is neglect.

Chapellass · 14/02/2021 14:32

Whether it's behavioural or physiological, this poor child needs medical input. Please ask your sister to stop avoiding the issue and get her child some help

JustLyra · 14/02/2021 14:32

@minniemango

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?
Why would that make any difference?

The only thing potentially lacking about the childminder is the fact she hasn't reported your sister's neglect of her DD's need to see a GP.

WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants · 14/02/2021 14:32

@minniemango

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?
I doubt it. Why would someone HAVE to continue to look after a child they didn't want to? Especially a CM from their home??

THey need to sort the actual problem of a 5yo choosing to poo her pants instead of using a toilet - not try to force someone else to deal with it, can you not see how wrong that is?

AaronPurr · 14/02/2021 14:33

@minniemango

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?
Of course it doesn't make a difference. You expect to change young children and babies. The child minder doesn't expect to be cleaning soiled pants and poo accidents every day from an NT 5 year old, just because the parents refuse to acknowledge there's a problem.
EarringsandLipstick · 14/02/2021 14:33

SIL has a friend who is a GP who said there's nothing physically wrong it's just laziness

That's terrible, terrible advice.

That poor little girl.

It's not usual to be having significant poo issues at 5.

There are a few reasons - physiologically to do with constipation or rarer conditions around sphincter control or, it can be linked into wider issues, like AS or SPD.

There are a range of interventions possible. It's desperately sad that her parents are accepting it as normal at 5, rather than seeking help, starting with a GP visit.

CandidaAlbicans2 · 14/02/2021 14:33

@minniemango, instead of focusing on whether or not the CM has the right to refuse to look after your niece, perhaps focus on why your sister appears to have done nothing to sort the problem out for the past 2 years.

Original poster
minniemango · 14/02/2021 14:33

@HangOnToYourself

OP you seem unwilling to accept that this needs investigating properly, it seems SIL had a half arsed chat with an irresponsible GP friend and has taken it as gospel that it's just laziness. Poor child.
It's not that I'm unwilling to accept it, it's just I live 200 miles away and haven't actually seen DN in person for over a year so it's hard for me to know exactly what is going on. My own children were comparatively very easy to train.
OP posts:
ThatsnotmyBorishishairistoneat · 14/02/2021 14:33

I think your DN parents need to take this more seriously and get help at this stage. How does Dnfeel about this? I think if they make an effort to sort it out and explain to Cm then she is bu.

JustLyra · 14/02/2021 14:33

@glitterelf

I'm assuming that she's also having accidents whilst at school ? If so what's schools stance on this ? Most schools call parents in now to change children if they child cannot do it themselves. As a childminder myself I would not be happy with this situation especially with the current situation and hygiene being of utmost importance. The childminder has grounds to terminate as she's unable to meet your DN needs and whilst having to see to her daily will impact the needs of the other children. Your sister really does need to seek medical advice and as another poster has said it could be constipation , sluggish bowels and could be an overflow issue.
The child is in reception so the school will hardly have had any time with her actually in the building with them.
Bluebunny123 · 14/02/2021 14:33

I agree that this needs looking into. If it were my child I would be concerned that something were amiss as it is not typical NT behaviour. I also make the childminder right as I would not want to be clearing up poo everyday from a child that was not mine. It would be different if it were a baby or it was a one off but it seems like she's had enough of doing it.

Rupertbeartrousers · 14/02/2021 14:34

Poor kid, this needs investigating.

JustLyra · 14/02/2021 14:34

It's not that I'm unwilling to accept it, it's just I live 200 miles away and haven't actually seen DN in person for over a year so it's hard for me to know exactly what is going on. My own children were comparatively very easy to train.

So why are you posting to find out if the CM can be forced to care for your DN rather than tearing your hair out about your sister's laziness and neglect?

insancerre · 14/02/2021 14:35

Failing to seek medical help for a child is a form of neglect and should be a referral to social services

Elieza · 14/02/2021 14:35

Poor childminder having to deal with that. I don’t blame her for saying no. There’s no SEN so I can’t see it being discriminatory?

Poor little girl for having the problem in the first place and nobody taking her to a GP. Are THEY the ones who are lazy?

Is she scared of the bathroom or the toilet itself or not noticing the signs or not wanting to leave the room to use the loo alone. Or is she scared of wiping or flushing the toilet or it’s cold in there or there are ghosts up there whatever? There is an answer to this and it needs to be found quickly. It could be something easy to fix.

Poor child will be slagged off at school for always shitting her pants. Once or twice a year is expected. Not continually.

sunflowersandbuttercups · 14/02/2021 14:35

@minniemango

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?
No. She can choose to stop service for whatever reason she wants.

Your SIL needs to take this seriously and take her daughter to the GP for a check-up. The odd accident might be normal at 5yo, but not daily accidents or soiling.

Your SIL doesn't want your niece to go to school still doing this.

MissMarpleDarling · 14/02/2021 14:36

My autistic 3 year old never had an accident. They are all different. At 5 though surely she wouldn't anyway.

HangOnToYourself · 14/02/2021 14:36

No nut you just keep trying to push the whole "can we force the childminder to look after her" rather than listening to what people are saying and agreeing there is an issue your SIL needs to deal with. It's a conversation you can have with her, none of us can

IfWishesWereKisses · 14/02/2021 14:36

@minniemango

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?
No difference. The childminder is self employed and is allowed to end her contract for whatever reason she wants.
IHateCoronavirus · 14/02/2021 14:36

CM is being reasonable. At five most children are pretty reliable at toileting, accidents can happen but are few and far between.
By five I would also expect most children to be having a good go at cleaning their own bottoms too.
What does your sister do when DN has soiled herself? Is she still in nappies or is she in regular pants?
If they are certain DN is NT I would be encouraging DN to clean up her own accidents, with hands off supervision. If it is ‘laziness’ she will do learn the toilet is a far easier option.

Noodledoodledoo · 14/02/2021 14:37

Has your SIL tried anything to improve the situation since schools closed, 2 months of effort might have improved the situation. Agree with others a childminder and even privately run after school clubs are private businesses who are entitled to say no to clients. A childminder doesn't necessarily have the capacity to change a 5 year old.

If her GP friend thinks its laziness then revert back to potty training stage, sitting on the loo every 30 mins, interrupting play etc.

00100001 · 14/02/2021 14:37

@minniemangon

How did you expect this thread to go?

Let's assume everyone agreed with you, then what?
You'll tell your 200mile away SIL that CM has to take her child because if reasons...?

Same4Walls · 14/02/2021 14:37

So why are you posting to find out if the CM can be forced to care for your DN rather than tearing your hair out about your sister's laziness and neglect?

Indeed. I'm so confused as to why you're fixated on this issue and not on the phone to your sister telling her she needs to get a gp appointment. It's cleer you've spoken about this at length with her multiple times so why are you not demanding she helps your niece instead of looking for support that the childminder is in the wrong?

Lou573 · 14/02/2021 14:37

OP, I can see this from both sides, my now 5 year old was a nightmare to potty train with poos, tried everything & turned out to need medication daily on an ongoing basis which thankfully sorted it out before school. Your sil needs to get a medical opinion.

Having been through it, it is soul destroying to be changing a 4 years olds shitty pants several times a day and I would absolutely not blame a childminder for wanting no part of it. Particularly with other children to be looking after. Your sil may also be called into school to deal with it I understand, so she really needs to get on top of it.

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