Childminder kicking out child for not being potty trained is she BU?

[minniemango]

My niece is currently not able to attend her childminder as SIL isn't a keyworker. SIL has contacted childminder about care resuming from March 8th and been told she will only have DN back if SIL can guarantee she will have no accidents.
Is the childminder being unreasonable, is this even allowed?
DN is 5 and in Reception, no SEN.

Shes not potty trained if shes having daily accidents. Has your sister seen the gp?

DN has been potty trained since she was 3 and is dry, but she has been a nightmare with poos. She does have either full poo accidents or dirty pants most days and the childminder had expressed before lockdown that she didn't want to deal with changing DN every day.

Sorry I posted before seeing your update. I think your DSis will need to accept that the CM is on her own and dealing with the full clean ups on every bait must be very time consuming and will take her attention away from the other children.

What has your DSis done so far to try and help DN?

@minniemango

DN has been potty trained since she was 3 and is dry, but she has been a nightmare with poos. She does have either full poo accidents or dirty pants most days and the childminder had expressed before lockdown that she didn't want to deal with changing DN every day.

Is this being investigated by GP?

I wouldn't want to deal with that either, but i'm not a childminder. I don't feel CM is being unreasonable based on this information, particularly if (IF!) steps are not being taken to get to the bottom of it.

She needs to find out why her daughter isn't toilet trained.

@Same4Walls

Has your sister not taken your niece to the doctors? Surely she's not just expecting the childminder to continue to change her indefinitely without trying to get to the root cause of the accidents?

She has spoken to the HV a couple of years ago who said to persevere with routine and reward charts etc. DN does have periods of weeks sometimes with no accidents (at least not at school/childminder). SIL has a friend who is a GP who said there's nothing physically wrong it's just laziness.

My DD was still having accidents at 4. No SEN. I was told all children mature at different rates and toilet training was the one element she was behind on. Appreciate this will sound late to others.

I wouldn’t expect to have to change a 3 year old every day never mind a 5 year old and i work on a nursery
The childminder does not have to accept this child
It’s her right to refuse
I really do think medical help is needed now

Childminder has said she can choose who she has and isn't legally obliged to take children if she can't deal with them. The CM is right and your DSis is being more than a little unreasonable if she's not dealing with the issue but instead getting upset with the CM. It's a business at the end of the day and she can decide which children she minds.

She has spoken to the HV a couple of years ago who said to persevere with routine and reward charts etc.

A couple of years ago is a whole different situation to a 5 year old. I'd be seriously unimpressed that my sister didn't seem to care about the health of her child if she's not even taken her to see a GP.

@OverTheRainbow88

It’s illegal as is discriminating

It's discriminating but so is saying "I don't take people over 18 - only children." and therefore perfectly fine. Also just like a cleaner they can pick clients and are not required to take on all offered jobs.

SIL has a friend who is a GP who said there's nothing physically wrong it's just laziness.

The only laziness is your SIL not taking it seriously and getting her child to the actual GP for a professional opinion. Unless the friend is a paediatrician, specialising in bowel movement - and she conducted a full examination with the appropriate tests - her opinion is just pure conjecture.

Your sister needs to address this issue rather than just expecting other people to deal with it.

Speaking to the HV two years ago and a casual chat with a friend who just happens to be a GP is not good enough, and she’s neglecting her daughter by not getting her proper professional help.

@minniemango

Is this true?

No it is not true, it is utter codswallop.

The nine protected characteristics that are relevant to anti discrimination law are: age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion, sex, sexual orientation. You say no SEN so it presumably cannot be argued as disability discrimination and clearly does not relate to any other protected characteristic.

Soiled pants might be a sign of constipation. It really needs looking in to more closely.

She has spoken to the HV a couple of years ago who said to persevere with routine and reward charts etc.
DN does have periods of weeks sometimes with no accidents (at least not at school/childminder).
SIL has a friend who is a GP who said there's nothing physically wrong it's just laziness.

So basically, no, she hasn't spoken to the GP...

In the CM's shoes I wouldn't want to take in a 5yo who soils themselves every day when their parent hasn't even bothered to speak to the GP.

Apart from any other consideration this poor child is probably uncomfortable, embarrassed, probably in pain. Her mother should be making every effort to sort out what is probably a dietary problem or impaction with overflow. It isn't the child minder's job to do this. She is probably trying to get the mother to get medical advice.

Childminder has said she can choose who she has and isn't legally obliged to take children if she can't deal with them.

Of course it's true. Think about it. If she had no way of helping a severely disabled child, you can't force her....

And besides, why would you insist on sending your child to an adult who has told you directly they don't want to have them??

Schools have to take them as they can't discriminate against disabled children, they are still entitled to an education. Childminders don't have to take any child they don't want to. A 5 year old still having daily poo accidents needs to see a doctor as that really isn't normal.

And this might force the parent to actually deal with the laziness.

The CM is right.

She has spoken to the HV a couple of years ago who said to persevere with routine and reward charts etc.

A couple of years ago so age 2 / 3? If so toileting accidents would have been much more common so no reason to worry. At 5 your SIL needs to get in touch with a GP to investigate why. At this age it often isn't laziness, and the constant soiled pants could indicate she may have faecal impaction.

2 years ago your dn would have been 3 which is an acceptable age to be having accidents. Your sister needs to see her proper gp again not speak casually to her friend

Gosh she needs to see a GP. My sister is a cm and she wouldn't accept this happening every day, nor would I send my DS (3) to her in these circumstances. It's not a case of passing the issue on to someone else, the cause needs to be found and addressed

@Doyouwantanothercuppa

Soiled pants might be a sign of constipation. It really needs looking in to more closely.

I don't think it is constipation as DN does do normal poos every day (just mostly not on the toilet!) so does seem more of a behavioural thing.

The friend who is a gp sounds unprofessional and irresponsible.