Page 19 | Childminder kicking out child for not being potty trained is she BU?

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 15/02/2021 21:49

@B33Fr33

My child has no SEN but does have a physical issue that results in accidents. Glad to know MN think this lazy child minder is totally ok in not support I g the needs of individuals. Excellent.

Lazy? She's been dealing with it for at least two years!

Dowser · 15/02/2021 22:01

@minniemango

My niece is currently not able to attend her childminder as SIL isn't a keyworker. SIL has contacted childminder about care resuming from March 8th and been told she will only have DN back if SIL can guarantee she will have no accidents. Is the childminder being unreasonable, is this even allowed? DN is 5 and in Reception, no SEN.

Wow I thought that was a typo I thought you meant childminder kicking our child for not being potty trained

I need to go to spec savers 😂

slashlover · 15/02/2021 22:33

@B33Fr33

My child has no SEN but does have a physical issue that results in accidents. Glad to know MN think this lazy child minder is totally ok in not support I g the needs of individuals. Excellent.

I would assume that if you know it's a physical issue then you're DC is under medical care for the issue? OPs DS has done nothing about their DC for TWO YEARS, they've allowed the child minder to deal with a fecally incontinent child while doing nothing to try to fix it.

endingintiers · 15/02/2021 23:08

According to ERIC website 'A delay in achieving continence - or not being toilet trained - is considered a disability.'
So yes, it is discrimination

endingintiers · 15/02/2021 23:12

Their advice is for schools but if you call them they may be able to advise how best to approach a child minder regarding this issue.

Link www.eric.org.uk/help-at-school-faqs

I have two children with toileting issues, one with SEN, one without so have had to raise this with school before.

UndertheCedartree · 15/02/2021 23:21

@Shehasadiamondinthesky - pretty sure most people are still potty training - hence it being unusual for this 5yo not to be. My 2 were both dry and clean night and day at 3. It wasn't hard atall - they were both ready. Not sure why you found it such hard work?!

Runnerduck34 · 15/02/2021 23:43

Im sorry your sister is having a difficult time, Whether the CM is unreasonable or not i wouldn't want my child with a looked after by someone who didn't want them. CM sounds unsympathetic, many 5 year-olds will have the occasional , usually wetting, accident . I havent read the whole thread but it sounds more like DN is holding in poo. I would contact GP and ask for a referral as this shouldn't be a problem by the age of 5. Do they ever go use toilet for poos? My DD wouldn't use the toilet for poos until she was a month or two away from her 5th birthday, she was dry through the night from 2.5 years ,use loo happily for wees but just wouldn't do a poo in the loo, she always wanted to wear a pull up that she would put on herself, go into a corner and poo, we tried everything, reward charts etc and in desperation taking away pull ups but that just resulting in her going for nearly a week without a poo and was very very stressful, our GP referred her and just before her appointment she magically decided to do poos in the loo, no idea why - she just decided herself she would.
I strongly suspect she has ASC but she hasnt a formal diagnosis. I would get your sister to contact GP and ask for a referral and let CM know and see if they can be more flexible. Good luck

Tibtom · 15/02/2021 23:44

[quote UndertheCedartree]@Shehasadiamondinthesky - pretty sure most people are still potty training - hence it being unusual for this 5yo not to be. My 2 were both dry and clean night and day at 3. It wasn't hard atall - they were both ready. Not sure why you found it such hard work?![/quote]
The fact your children found it an easy skill to aquire is no reflection on you. Likewise another child finding it a difficult skill to learn is not a reflection on their parent. Night time dryness is not even possible until they are physiologically ready and there is nothing you can do to speed that up.

PickAChew · 15/02/2021 23:48

No one past babyhood shits themselves daily through laziness.

AliceMcK · 15/02/2021 23:51

I think everyone is being unfair, there are lots of reasons children have accidents. My niece was having accidents at 9 because of medical problems no one knew about, she went for years being ashamed and being told off by others only to find out she was unwell.

I would also have accidents as a child as I have kidney issues which caused me to not feel when I was weeing.

I think the child minder is being unreasonable. As long as there is an action plan in place I don’t see it as an issue.

slashlover · 16/02/2021 00:07

I think the child minder is being unreasonable. As long as there is an action plan in place I don’t see it as an issue.

But there is no plan in place. OPs DS spoke to the HV two YEARS ago and casually mentioned it to a GP friend.

The childminder is apparently supposed to just keep cleaning up a 5 year olds faeces indefinitely while the parents do nothing.

nocoolnamesleft · 16/02/2021 00:09

@AliceMcK

I think everyone is being unfair, there are lots of reasons children have accidents. My niece was having accidents at 9 because of medical problems no one knew about, she went for years being ashamed and being told off by others only to find out she was unwell.

I would also have accidents as a child as I have kidney issues which caused me to not feel when I was weeing.

I think the child minder is being unreasonable. As long as there is an action plan in place I don’t see it as an issue.

Yes, which is why we're shocked that the poor child has not been assessed for medical problems. And has no action plan. I suspect the child minder is trying to force the parents into action.

DfEisashambles · 16/02/2021 00:13

If she doesn’t have the time to be dealing with it most days as presumably she has more children and needs to be with them, then she’s doing the right thing by telling mum she isn’t able for it.

It must be hard to not take personally but the childminder isn’t being unreasonable.

Lalliella · 16/02/2021 00:14

@OverTheRainbow88

It’s illegal as is discriminating

It’s not discriminating. Potty training is not a protected characteristic. People do put some nonsense on here.

I thought it was pretty standard that pre-schools and CMs expect NT kids to be potty-trained from the age of 3.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 16/02/2021 00:14

@endingintiers

Their advice is for schools but if you call them they may be able to advise how best to approach a child minder regarding this issue.

Link www.eric.org.uk/help-at-school-faqs

I have two children with toileting issues, one with SEN, one without so have had to raise this with school before.

1.entirely different setting. 2.children have the right to an education, they don't have the right to (private) childcare.

Tibtom · 16/02/2021 00:24

Lalliella incontinence is a disability. Disability is a protected characteristic.

Carouselfish · 16/02/2021 01:17

Even a potty trained child can have accidents. My dd would hold her wee for too long as she didn't want to stop playing then make a dash for it and sometimes not quite get there..

AaronPurr · 16/02/2021 07:57

@Carouselfish

Even a potty trained child can have accidents. My dd would hold her wee for too long as she didn't want to stop playing then make a dash for it and sometimes not quite get there..

Of course, and i'm sure the childminder expects and understands this. However, this isn't the case here. It's not an occassional accident, it's a child who is pooing and having dirty pants daily, and the parents are making no attempt to get help for the child.

WineInTheWillows · 16/02/2021 08:06

@Tibtom

Lalliella incontinence is a disability. Disability is a protected characteristic.

The mother of this child has been telling the childminder it's down to laziness though, rather than a physical or mental disability. Laziness is not a protected characteristic, so as long as the mother sticks her head in the sand and insists that's what it is, there's no recourse from a disability perspective.

I like to imagine that the childminder, knowing this, is effectively forcing the mother to get it investigated- once she does this and discovers there is a physical problem (highly likely to be constipation, as PP have said) then it becomes a disability and protected characteristic.

Brefugee · 16/02/2021 08:11

My child has no SEN but does have a physical issue that results in accidents. Glad to know MN think this lazy child minder is totally ok in not support I g the needs of individuals. Excellent.

the lazy one here is you for not making any attempt to understand 19 pages worth of posts.

Again, from pp: anyone who would insist this CM take on a child and cleaning up their shit on a daily basis in her home in the presence of other children despite the CM telling the parents it's not a situation she is set up to cope with - must have had an empathy by-pass. Both for the CM and the child.

OP - any news on getting your niece to the GP? It must be difficult if the child's mother is in denial. Is there another family member closer who can intervene?

BunnyRuddington · 16/02/2021 10:26

Also, if he does apply to Court you need to get some good legal advice. The Relationships section and the Legal Section on here are both very good.

Rights of Women also give free legal advice although they are fairly stretched so always give yourself plenty of time to get Legal advice, you'd be amazed how many people leave it to the day before a Court hearing.

If he does go to Court, you should go to mediation first but if he's been verbally abusive, mediation isn't appropriate.

EL8888 · 16/02/2021 11:49

I don’t think the childminder is being unreasonable, nothing seems to being done and she’s bored of dealing with it. Fair enough really. She has her own business to run and probably doesn’t expect to deal with a 5 year old who isn’t toilet trained

Bingomangoes · 16/02/2021 12:02

Encopresis, please have her investigated for this (apologies haven't read full thread, so don't know if this has already been suggested). My daughter had encopresis, now 10yrs old and absolutely fine but it blighted her early experience of school and drove me crazy thinking she just wasn't trying and was being lazy.... she was neither of those things. Untreated this can continue into teenage years. ERIC website is brilliant....our GP was useless when finally referred to a specialist they were amazing and hugely apologetic that GP hadn't referred us years earlier, it's a very common condition that is often mistaken for laziness and underdiagnosed. Good luck to your niece. Apologies, I know that doesn't address your question about child minder.

Happyinheels · 16/02/2021 14:37

Most childminders that I know are highly professional individuals, running their own business and complying with the requirements of The Early Years Framework and Ofsted. Part of this is working in partnership with parents. A childminder works closely with parents and carers to provide the best care possible for the child - that is every child in their care. A childminder doesn't simply 'kick a child out.' It takes something massive to result in a childminder terminating a contract. I imagine that the childminder has repeatedly tried to work with the parent regarding this issue. It sounds like there has been a breakdown in their relationship and that the situation has become untenable.
Childminders are used to potty training children and part of the job is dealing with accidents. This is way more than that and is clearly impacting on the care that the childminder can give to other children.
There comes a point where sometimes a difficult decision needs to be made. I hope that the childminder has documented all this to show the level of support she has provided so far and also because it's comments like this that can tar an excellent childminders name and have a devastating impact on their business. There are always 2 sides to a story and sadly childminders are often viewed as little more than 'babysitters' they often go without the professional recognition that they deserve.

Cassilis · 16/02/2021 14:49

@B33Fr33

My child has no SEN but does have a physical issue that results in accidents. Glad to know MN think this lazy child minder is totally ok in not support I g the needs of individuals. Excellent.

Isn’t it laziness expecting a CM to clean up shit because the parents haven’t bothered to investigate why their child is having issues?