Childminder kicking out child for not being potty trained is she BU?

[minniemango]

My niece is currently not able to attend her childminder as SIL isn't a keyworker. SIL has contacted childminder about care resuming from March 8th and been told she will only have DN back if SIL can guarantee she will have no accidents.
Is the childminder being unreasonable, is this even allowed?
DN is 5 and in Reception, no SEN.

She has spoken to the HV a couple of years ago who said to persevere with routine and reward charts etc.DN does have periods of weeks sometimes with no accidents (at least not at school/childminder).SIL has a friend who is a GP who said there's nothing physically wrong it's just laziness.

Your DSis needs to get a proper assessment. If she spoke to the HV 2 years ago there is a world of difference in children of 3 having an odd potty training accident and a child of 5 deliberately pooing her pants every day.

She needs to see a GP and possibly fry a referral.

She has spoken to the HV a couple of years ago who said to persevere with routine and reward charts etc

Jesus. Your sister hasn’t done anything about this for years?!!

The childminder is not being unreasonable here. Your sister is. She needs to step up as a parent and get this looked into and sorted.

@00100001

Childminder has said she can choose who she has and isn't legally obliged to take children if she can't deal with them.

Of course it's true. Think about it. If she had no way of helping a severely disabled child, you can't force her....

And besides, why would you insist on sending your child to an adult who has told you directly they don't want to have them??

School aren't running any wraparound care at the moment so childminder is SIL's only childcare option.

Yes, I'd be getting her looked at from a health perspective. It can't be nice for the child to be soiling herself daily and if she's reliably dry I can't imagine laziness is leading her to soil herself.

I actually feel incredibly sad for this poor child that the obly person who seems to care about her health is the childminder. Seriously why do none of the adults in her life appear to think this needs investigating?

@minniemango

[quote Doyouwantanothercuppa]
Soiled pants might be a sign of constipation. It really needs looking in to more closely.

I don't think it is constipation as DN does do normal poos every day (just mostly not on the toilet!) so does seem more of a behavioural thing.[/quote]
Or muscle control, or anything- only the doctors would be able to tell you. You and your SIL seem to be making assumptions without actually doing anything about.

The bigger question here is why is your sister not finding any help for her daughter?

Childminders are private childcare so I'm pretty sure they can pick and choose who they take on. It's not the same as a school where children are legally required to have access to education.

I don't think they are being unreasonable, it's better imo for the childminder to be honest about what they can/want to deal with. If they were saying it in relation to a toddler than obviously that's unreasonable, although technically still their choice! Probably changes and cleaning aren't factored into wrap around care provision for a school age child. It would be different if it was the occasional accident as does sometimes happen, but it sounds like it's more of an ongoing thing.

It’s not illegal. Being potty trained is not a protected characteristic. If it was a symptom of an SEN that would be a different matter entirely.
I don’t blame her having to clean up shit every day from a child of that age is pretty rank.

School aren't running any wraparound care at the moment so childminder is SIL's only childcare option

So your DSis needs to pull her finger out of her own bum and sort this out.

The cm is actually being very sensible to highlight the issue.

My pal was a cm to a child who clearly had developmental issues but the parents wouldn't acknowledge that there were problems. My friend really struggled as she was a very proactive cm with the other children in her care, organising lots of activities and it was difficult to attend to the child's additional needs. It would have been better, in hindsight, that she'd refused to take him as she got very frustrated.

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?

It's unacceptable for an NT 5 yo to be pooing in their pants every day. What have her parents been doing to get this sorted.

Do you think she is actually NY though, lots of kids, especially girls, don't get a dc until they're older.

If they're as sure as they can be that she's NT & it's not medical, they need come down hard on her. Do they not mind themselves?

I don't know the rules re CM's but frankly I think expecting her to deal with this is completely unreasonable!!

Not to mention? Even if there was a way of making her take DN why would you want to do that?

Is she potty trained or not? At the age an occasional accident may happen so can’t be guaranteed but should be ok.

OP you seem unwilling to accept that this needs investigating properly, it seems SIL had a half arsed chat with an irresponsible GP friend and has taken it as gospel that it's just laziness. Poor child.

Sorry but of course cm can make that decision
your sister needs to be being much more proactive in trying to resolve this behaviour if it has no physical reason
She’s lost her childcare over it and god knows what that little girl has said to her at school by peers

@Same4Walls

I actually feel incredibly sad for this poor child that the obly person who seems to care about her health is the childminder. Seriously why do none of the adults in her life appear to think this needs investigating?

Yep, I can't imagine the situation had the CM not spoken up and refused to provide care. Would the poor child's parents just continue to ignore the issue, and hope she just suddenly stops.

DN has been potty trained since she was 3 and is dry, but she has been a nightmare with poos. She does have either full poo accidents or dirty pants most days and the childminder had expressed before lockdown that she didn't want to deal with changing DN every day.

I think theres an issue that needs to addressed here. The Eric website and a visit to the gp.

FFS. Excuse the pun but your sister needs to get her shit together. Regular fecal incontinence at 5 isn’t ok and needs to be assessed by a GP ASAP. You can’t just put that down to laziness. You and your sister are being unreasonable on so many levels. Where is the duty of care to this child?

I can't believe you think the childminder is the one in the wrong here. At age 5 repeatedly soiling herself is something that needs to be checked out by a paediatrician - your niece's parents are doing her no favours by ignoring this.

@minniemango

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?

She's refusing to continue the relationship because presumably the child has got to the age where CM feels, enough is enough. The issue needs to be dealt with.

Would you think it was unreasonable for CM to refuse to continue providing care for a 10 year old who still wasn't toilet trained?

Everyone has a line in the sand, and it appears this CM has drawn hers.

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?

No, it doesn’t make any difference
The CM can give notice the same as the parent can

I'm assuming that she's also having accidents whilst at school ? If so what's schools stance on this ? Most schools call parents in now to change children if they child cannot do it themselves.
As a childminder myself I would not be happy with this situation especially with the current situation and hygiene being of utmost importance.
The childminder has grounds to terminate as she's unable to meet your DN needs and whilst having to see to her daily will impact the needs of the other children.
Your sister really does need to seek medical advice and as another poster has said it could be constipation , sluggish bowels and could be an overflow issue.

@minniemango

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?

Of course it doesn't make a difference. In fact it makes it worse as she obviously has a strong bond with your niece and yet she still feels this is the only course of action in getting your sister to actually get support for her.

Honestly I dispair that none of the adults in her life except the childminder seem to think she needs to see a medical professional.