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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Childminder kicking out child for not being potty trained is she BU?

477 replies

minniemango · 14/02/2021 14:04

My niece is currently not able to attend her childminder as SIL isn't a keyworker. SIL has contacted childminder about care resuming from March 8th and been told she will only have DN back if SIL can guarantee she will have no accidents.
Is the childminder being unreasonable, is this even allowed?
DN is 5 and in Reception, no SEN.

OP posts:
BenoneBeauty · 14/02/2021 18:51

@ddl1

If this is occurring frequently, the child needs a medical check-up. 5-year-olds do have occasional accidents; but pooing your pants every day at this age suggests either some sort of digestive problem or some sort of emotional problem.
I completely agree.

Also feel very sorry for the childminder - people can't seriously expect childminders to deal with 5 year olds who poo their pants every day. The parents need to sort that shit (literally!) and not expect a childminder to have to deal with that. Occasional accidents are understandable but this needs sorted out by the parents (& medical professionals as necessary!)

JustLyra · 14/02/2021 19:02

Totally agree, also surprised the school have not raised as an issue. It really is negligent.

@OliviaPopeRules The kid is only in reception so with lockdowns the school will barely have had her in school for them to be aware of the issue.

applestamper · 14/02/2021 19:04

OP your SIL might want to look into/ talk to her GP about something called toddler diarrhoea. My DD3 is fortunately rapidly outgrowing it and her trigger foods are easily avoided, but it's a possible cause of your DN's problems.

Playnoh · 14/02/2021 19:04

Poo accidents most days!? That’s not on I right blame the child minder

OliviaPopeRules · 14/02/2021 19:08

@JustLyra

Totally agree, also surprised the school have not raised as an issue. It really is negligent.

@OliviaPopeRules The kid is only in reception so with lockdowns the school will barely have had her in school for them to be aware of the issue.

They were in for a full term about 14 weeks before Christmas. My DS started reception this year and if he was pooing in his pants every day I would expect them to raise it and I know they would. If it was me I would be mortified that I haven't raised it with my gp. Btw, I was saying the parents were negligent not the school.
JustLyra · 14/02/2021 19:12

They were in for a full term about 14 weeks before Christmas.

That's assuming the school was open full time the whole way through. Some kids had multiple bubble burst weeks off, which combined with "She's new it'll settle", and the fact the OP said sometimes she can go spells of not being bad means it's solely down to the parents. Not the school

Plus we don't actually know the school haven't raised it. The CM clearly has and it hasn't made the parents do anything.

Craiglang · 14/02/2021 19:12

I also do not understand why she would send her back to a childminder who has clearly stated she doesn't want her there. Whether or not it's discrimination isn't the point - the childminder doesn't want her there. I couldn't let my child be cared for by someone who has actively told me they don't want to care for them. Confused

Poor child needs to be seen by a doctor. She's in reception, no obvious ASN. She shouldn't be pooing in her pants every. day. This isn't an occasional accident, this is a problem. She's only 5 but the other kids will be noticing it. For her own self esteem, this needs looked in to and she needs support to overcome whatever the issue is that is preventing her from using the toilet. I really can't see any reason why she hasn't seen a professional until now, that's appalling.

Freddiefox · 14/02/2021 19:14

@minniemango

I understand that the childminder can take on or not take on any child she wants without even giving a reason, but in this case DN has already been attending for several years so the childminder is actively refusing to care for her anymore. Does this make a difference?
No it doesn’t. Stop making this the childminders fault and look much closer to home to your sister. You DN should have been seen by a professional a long time ago.

The childminder may have babies or toddlers and not feel it’s ok to leave them when she changing your DN. it could well be a safeguarding issue for her.

caringcarer · 14/02/2021 19:14

OP you should ring your sister and tell her she is neglecting your DN health. CM is quite within her rights to pick and choose who she cares for. Would you like to clean poo off of a 5 year old everyday? Most people would agree It is worse when not your own child. I am not a CM but it would make me feel sick. The child needs urgent medical care and it may well be a psychological problem.

Hankunamatata · 14/02/2021 19:15

Sounds like she needs more 1:1 care than childminder. Does she even tell anyone she has poo'd in her pants?

Freddiefox · 14/02/2021 19:16

It’s also the childminders home, poo in pants isn’t like a nappy. It’s goes through clothes an potentially on her furniture.

Mamagotskills · 14/02/2021 19:21

As a compromise she could offer to put her in pull ups and come collect her every time she has an accident? Not ideal but if she desperately needs the childcare...

Hankunamatata · 14/02/2021 19:24

Yes the childminder can refuse and No its not discrimination. If her behaviour even with special needs is deem to be too much for the childcare setting - of course they can say no.

Secondly as a mum with a child with sen, why on earth would the parent want a child with a childminder that doesnt want the child???????

The child may be better suited to an daycare setting that provides wrap around. But your sister will struggle to find childcare unless perhaps she puts her in pulls ups or special underwear.

Hankunamatata · 14/02/2021 19:26

You may also find that if dn starts soiling herself in school each day then they can request the parent to come and change her.

RedGoldAndGreene · 14/02/2021 19:33

I also do not understand why she would send her back to a childminder who has clearly stated she doesn't want her there. Whether or not it's discrimination isn't the point - the childminder doesn't want her there. I couldn't let my child be cared for by someone who has actively told me they don't want to care for them.

^^ This
Skid marks from not wiping properly will be common but full on poo accidents is not usual for an NT 5yo. Your sister needs medical help with dn before the kids at school find out and she's stuck being the girl who poos herself until y6.

Okokokbear · 14/02/2021 19:38

The childminder has to think about whether she can meet the needs of all the children in her care. Your niece although 5 has the personal care needs if a way younger child. Just like the childminder wouldn't have 5 children in nappies she needs to consider your niece as she would a child in nappies. So I'm not sure on the legality, but honestly I'm not sure why anyone would want a childminder looking after their child just because they are legally obliged to.

I also find it quite shocking that your sister has only spoken to a gp friend and last spoke to a heal visitors a few years ago. At 5 to still be pooing you pants daily isn't normal. Even if a medical or learning need isn't identified your sister needs support to address this as clearly its not happening on its own..

I don't want to be too judgemental as doctors and health visitors can be dismissive. But I'm not sure how much she's tried?

Carycy · 14/02/2021 19:38

My Neurotypical son had Pooh accidents regularly in reception. Largely in the summer term as he was too lazy to come back from playing outside. I regularly had to come into school and take him home.
He grew out of it. He is fine now. He didn’t have to be bloody assessed. We don’t have to label every god damn child. Every child develops at their own rate. I wish we would stop labeling children and assuming they have SEN for every little thing.

Okokokbear · 14/02/2021 19:44

@Freddiefox

It’s also the childminders home, poo in pants isn’t like a nappy. It’s goes through clothes an potentially on her furniture.
Yes actually this is very true! As a nappy can just be whipped off and changed fairly easily(depending on the spread!) but as you say in pants potentially very messy.
digitaldays · 14/02/2021 19:49

Oh dear no. A childminder can't be expected to clean up at 5 year old's poos all the time surely? Might be different if SEN and was fully informed/trained on how to manage. If no issues I would get the parents to get child referred to specialist asap. This not good for starting school and needs sorted

Nanny0gg · 14/02/2021 19:52

@minniemango

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any posts, just trying to get an idea of what the position actually is with discrimination.
The position is that there is a problem with your DN and your DB and SiL need to be a bit more proactive in getting it looked at.

Have they really done nothing else but speak to a HV?

Tonkatol · 14/02/2021 20:34

@Carycy - I don't think it is so much labelling every child, but this seems like a regular occurence for the OP's DN. If any of my DC had been regularly soiling themselves by the time it came to starting school, I would definitely have sought the advice of the GP. It may just be that this particular child is a late developer but her parents really should seek advice to rule out any other cause.

@Playnoh - why do you blame the childminder? I used to be a childminder and have had times when pre-school children have had accidents. It takes quite some time to thoroughly clean a child that has soiled their knickers/pants and clothes. Bearing in mind, this is wraparound care, the childminder is probably busy enough after school, sorting snacks and possibly tea, along with supervising homework, entertaining young children etc. The childminder may be incredibly fond of the OP's DN but cannot feasibly cope with having her soil herself most days. Imagine you are preparing a meal for five children after school. You are committed to getting the children fed before they are collected by their parents. Halfway through cooking tea, you discover a child has soiled themselves. It is probably going to take you at least 10 minutes to completely sort the child out. You either have to leave tea cooking, with no supervision of the other children or the meal. Or you have to turn the oven etc off, delaying tea. Let's be fair here, however much the childminder is fond of her charges, she is, ultimately, trying to earn a living and if she feels this child is causing issues for the care everyone else gets, then she may have had to make that difficult decision to not look after her any longer.

I truly believe that OP should strongly advise her sister to get her daughter checked by her GP. It's a starting point - if it is down to maturity and development or laziness, then they can advise on how best to manage the problem and if it is that there is something else going on, the sooner they identify a problem, the sooner it can be fixed.

Dannydevitoiloveyourart · 14/02/2021 20:34

They were in for a full term about 14 weeks before Christmas. My DS started reception this year and if he was pooing in his pants every day I would expect them to raise it and I know they would. If it was me I would be mortified that I haven't raised it with my gp.

I imagine if the soiling is happening frequently at the childminders then the childminder is dealing with the brunt of it and the school may not even be aware of the issue.

It’s possible that the child may be holding the poo in for as long as she can until she gets to the minders to avoid having a humiliating accident at school.

SpudsandGravy · 14/02/2021 20:40

@OverTheRainbow88

It’s illegal as is discriminating

Not all discrimination is illegal or a bad idea. For instance, I choose not to share my house with a murderer. That's discrimination too (against murderers) but it's pretty sensible, and it's not illegal.

There's no law that prevents child minders from choosing not to take on children who are likely to be having regular poo accidents, if that's the basis of their refusal.

Dannydevitoiloveyourart · 14/02/2021 20:40

@Carycy

My Neurotypical son had Pooh accidents regularly in reception. Largely in the summer term as he was too lazy to come back from playing outside. I regularly had to come into school and take him home. He grew out of it. He is fine now. He didn’t have to be bloody assessed. We don’t have to label every god damn child. Every child develops at their own rate. I wish we would stop labeling children and assuming they have SEN for every little thing.
There’s no harm in getting an assessment to rule out other possibilities (SEN, physical, emotional health issues or otherwise). My son’s wee accidents turned out to be Type 1 diabetes which if left too late before diagnosis can leave a child very sick and affect the organs. All we went on was wee accidents and I’m glad we did as it was caught very early.

There’s literally nothing to lose and no shame in ‘labelling’ a child if that label is accurate and affords them the help they need.

Nanny0gg · 14/02/2021 20:45

@Carycy

My Neurotypical son had Pooh accidents regularly in reception. Largely in the summer term as he was too lazy to come back from playing outside. I regularly had to come into school and take him home. He grew out of it. He is fine now. He didn’t have to be bloody assessed. We don’t have to label every god damn child. Every child develops at their own rate. I wish we would stop labeling children and assuming they have SEN for every little thing.
So? Your child grew out of it.

Others don't

Is it sensible to wait till something possibly minor turns into something major just because they might grow out of it?

It's also not 'labelling'. It might not be SEN. It might be physiological or psychological. But it's certainly an unpleasant experience for both child and whoever has to clean them up,

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