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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Childminder kicking out child for not being potty trained is she BU?

477 replies

minniemango · 14/02/2021 14:04

My niece is currently not able to attend her childminder as SIL isn't a keyworker. SIL has contacted childminder about care resuming from March 8th and been told she will only have DN back if SIL can guarantee she will have no accidents.
Is the childminder being unreasonable, is this even allowed?
DN is 5 and in Reception, no SEN.

OP posts:
Playnoh · 14/02/2021 20:45

@Tonkatol
😂 sorry you’ve responded with a really long message to a typo. It was meant to say “I don’t blame the childminder” in no way would it be the CMs fault. Sorry I don’t mean to laugh but that was an unfortunate typo on my part.

Crazycrazylady · 14/02/2021 20:49

Op
It's not discrimination I'm afraid but regardless I don't there is anyone out there who would be comfortable sending their child to a minder who doesn't want her.
I certainly wouldn't.

BunnyRuddington · 14/02/2021 20:55

Carycy My Neurotypical son had Pooh accidents regularly in reception. Largely in the summer term as he was too lazy to come back from playing outside. I regularly had to come into school and take him home.

He grew out of it. He is fine now. He didn’t have to be bloody assessed. We don’t have to label every god damn child. Every child develops at their own rate. I wish we would stop labeling children and assuming they have SEN for every little thing

I'm glad that your child did grow out of it but there are so many posts on this thread of people who've experienced similar and have had to have medical intervention, for a whole range of reasons.

Getting the girl assessed for what could be a medical issue is not labelling, and even if it did turn out that she had additional needs, getting her assessed wound hopefully get her the support she may need.

ChonkyChook · 14/02/2021 20:58

@minniemango

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any posts, just trying to get an idea of what the position actually is with discrimination.
FGS it's not discrimination. It's neglect not to get a child medical attention when they need it though Hmm
Ileflottante · 14/02/2021 21:05

You strike me as a bit litigious and actually, there’s a five year old child soiling herself every single day upon whom the focus needs to be, not on some poor CM who’s had enough.

WineInTheWillows · 14/02/2021 21:09

@Carycy

My Neurotypical son had Pooh accidents regularly in reception. Largely in the summer term as he was too lazy to come back from playing outside. I regularly had to come into school and take him home. He grew out of it. He is fine now. He didn’t have to be bloody assessed. We don’t have to label every god damn child. Every child develops at their own rate. I wish we would stop labeling children and assuming they have SEN for every little thing.
Pooh accidents?

Oh, the willy, nilly, silly old bear!

Menora · 14/02/2021 21:17

The professional relationship between the CM and parent has broken down by the sounds of it. You can’t force the CM to take on a client she doesn’t wish to and why would you force this? She’s self employed she can take on or stop working with her own clients. Maybe you don’t agree with her ethics but that’s not the point, she’s saying no and she’s given a reasonable objective - the child needs to be dry. That should be what is worked towards, not forcing this CM to change her mind

x2boys · 14/02/2021 21:20

In a school setting @Carycy no body should have been calling you to take your child home because of Poo accidents , according to the ERIC guidelines it can be considered negligent to leave a child in their own faeces or urine whilst waiting for a parent to collect them,why would any adult do that ???
My child is ten with severe learning disabilities and autism and goes to a special school thankfully nobody has ever not changed him when needed no adult should think it's acceptable to leave a child in soiled ,nappies clothing etc in a school or nursery

tinyme77 · 14/02/2021 21:21

I don't think that this is necessarily an issue for the doctor. Some children continue to have poo accidents but will grow out of it.

Why would you want to use this child minder if they wouldn't want to deal with this?

BenoneBeauty · 14/02/2021 21:24

@x2boys

In a school setting *@Carycy* no body should have been calling you to take your child home because of Poo accidents , according to the ERIC guidelines it can be considered negligent to leave a child in their own faeces or urine whilst waiting for a parent to collect them,why would any adult do that ??? My child is ten with severe learning disabilities and autism and goes to a special school thankfully nobody has ever not changed him when needed no adult should think it's acceptable to leave a child in soiled ,nappies clothing etc in a school or nursery
Who should do this then? When schools are open and acting as normal, teachers don't have time to be changing kids who should be toilet trained. I don't blame them at all for calling parents in to change their own child's dirty pants.
x2boys · 14/02/2021 21:29

Them maybe you need to read the ERIC guidelines then @BenoneBeauty?

midnightstar66 · 14/02/2021 21:30

I work in primary 1. We absolutely change dc if they are wet or dirty. If it was more than a once off we'd address it with the parents though and regular poo accidents we'd direct them to the school nurse or advise a gp visit. We'd not accept no action as it isn't normal.

Mollymalone123 · 14/02/2021 21:32

Is it because she doesn’t like to go anywhere but her own toilet- seen it quite often in reception and nursery age - children hold on and then have an accident- or constipated and it hurts to go or did hurt and therefore she is holding on again out of fear?

1Morewineplease · 14/02/2021 21:32

If CM doesn't want to take her then she doesn't have to.

1Morewineplease · 14/02/2021 21:33

Your niece's issue needs referring back to the Health Visitor team.

Fembot123 · 14/02/2021 21:34

I would assume if you work with children with SEN you’d be expected to do some changing, is that not the case?

WhoStoleMyCheese · 14/02/2021 21:35

For gods sake have the poor child looked at by a GP!

DinosaurDigestive · 14/02/2021 21:40

@Carycy it is absolutely not labelling at all to take the appropriate action and to actually parent your own child by taking them to the doctors.

It could be due to additional support needs or it could not.

Most certainly does not mean that that is labelling every child. All it means is that someone is actually parenting properly by getting their child medically assessed by professionals. There are numerous examples on this thread of other conditions that can cause this which aren't related to additional support needs.

A five year old doing this constantly is not what is considered "normal" at all and there could be a number of different reasons/causes behind it but the child needs to be seen by a medical professional in order to find out which one is the cause.

Leaving a young child to soil themselves regularly is neglect and for the poster to be jumping on any post that suggests that the childminder would have to still take the child shows that it isn't likely anyone is going to bother seeking medical attention for this poor girl.

Hopefully the childminder will put in a concern form but if she doesn't then the school certainly will once they're back and this is still going on and no medical help has been seeked out by the so called parents. Kids will end up calling her names yet the parents can't be bothered getting her seen to... just when I thought I've heard it all! Neglect

1Morewineplease · 14/02/2021 21:43

@minniemango

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with any posts, just trying to get an idea of what the position actually is with discrimination.
The childminder is not discriminating. The childminder is running a private business and can pick and choose whichever children she wants. If the child has diagnosed SEN and has an EHCP then it is different but only to the extent that the childminder can say that he/she does or does not take EHCP children. If a child is already in their care and subsequently gains an EHCP then, I believe, it's a different matter.

That your niece is daily soiling herself suggests that she needs medical intervention that may ultimately require an EHCP. Her current childminder may not be able to accommodate this.

DinosaurDigestive · 14/02/2021 21:43

@BenoneBeauty one of my DC whom is autistic was in pull ups for a lot longer than a NT child would be. The school knew this and accepted her into the school. She was changed there. She had the appropriate medical persons involved in her care when this was happening so everyone knew this was ongoing.

1Morewineplease · 14/02/2021 21:44

Don't forget that some primary schools might find it difficult to accommodate your niece's needs.

midnightstar66 · 14/02/2021 21:48

School is totally different, legally you have to send your child unless you de register and homeschool and legally the council has to provide DC with a school space regardless of toileting habits. They still wouldn't be sitting back and accepting changing an NT child every day. There is not such legal requirement for a child to have a childminder place. CM is free to pick and choose.

user1471538283 · 14/02/2021 21:48

When my DS started state nursery at 3 it was under the condition that he was dry and clean. Accidents of course happen but if she is regularly soiling herself then I dont think you can expect a childminder to deal with this on top of caring for other children.

alexdgr8 · 14/02/2021 21:54

is this even a genuine enquiry ???
or something else.

Menora · 14/02/2021 21:59

CM is not discriminating. I don’t know the reason for you trying to find this out. If you really want to, get legal advice

If your sister went to a CM and the CM said ‘I don’t take non white children’ or ‘I don’t allow gay parents as customers’ or ‘I will take on your child who is deaf but I refuse to do sign language to communicate with them’ this would be examples of discrimination

The CM is saying ‘I have looked after this child for payment for some time and it isn’t working, it is not the right placement if the soiling isn’t resolved. I have other kids to care for and this is an issue for me and my business’

She has not refused the child she has said that she will look after the child if the soling is resolved. This is a breakdown in the working relationship and the boundaries of what the childminder is prepared to do. The extra work involved in this is too much for her, it’s not improving (so doesn’t seem to be as sporadic as you may think) and she doesn’t wish to continue. She’s not discriminating against a 5 year old or doing anything illegal she is trying to end the contract because the placement isn’t working. Your sister should check the contract

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