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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Childminder kicking out child for not being potty trained is she BU?

477 replies

minniemango · 14/02/2021 14:04

My niece is currently not able to attend her childminder as SIL isn't a keyworker. SIL has contacted childminder about care resuming from March 8th and been told she will only have DN back if SIL can guarantee she will have no accidents.
Is the childminder being unreasonable, is this even allowed?
DN is 5 and in Reception, no SEN.

OP posts:
midnightstar66 · 14/02/2021 17:12

It's actually pretty common but little spoken about (partly to do with the shame of having a school age child who soils which many will blame on parenting). Been there twice. Both now resolved but it took hard work and it was awful to go through.

In this case though you can blame the parenting as they've made zero effort to get to the bottom of their DD's obvious issues. Sounds like you tried hard for your DC in your case

Sunflowergirl1 · 14/02/2021 17:12

@OverTheRainbow88
"It’s illegal as is discriminating"

Is she discriminating? Yes
Is it illegal for her to discriminate? No unless the child has a disability in which case the childminder should assess whether she is discriminating.

Suggest that @OverTheRainbow88 doesn't give legal advice u less you know what you are talking about...which most people on here don't.

So yes the childminder can chose who she offers services to an PE frankly it isn't unreasonable to refuse to give care to a 5 year old that isn't potty trained

OakSnows · 14/02/2021 17:16

Not RTFT but of course a child minder can refuse a child for any reason! And I wouldn’t want my child being looked after by someone who doesn’t want them there and is being legally forced too!

There’s a huge different in changing a baby and a 5year old and being a lone worker.

HikeForward · 14/02/2021 17:20

She does have either full poo accidents or dirty pants most days and the childminder had expressed before lockdown that she didn't want to deal with changing DN every day

Poor childminder, I don’t blame her for not wanting to deal with daily poo accidents. It’s not like a toddler in a nappy who can easily be changed and cleaned.

Taking soiled clothes off a 5 year old, cleaning her (probably showering her) then changing into clean clothes must be time consuming and unpleasant. Not to mention rinsing and bagging the soiled school clothes to be taken home, plus the smell and infection control issues.

Has her mum taken her to the doctor in case it’s a medical issue?

saraclara · 14/02/2021 17:27

@chestnutSquash

The friend who is a gp sounds unprofessional and irresponsible.
Absolutely. That's appalling. A little girl does not poo herself at school out of laziness. How terribly embarrassing that must be for her.
blue25 · 14/02/2021 17:31

I wouldn’t want to be cleaning up a 5 year olds poo everyday. Of course the childminder isn’t being unreasonable! I can’t believe you think she has to agree to having a soiling child everyday.

saraclara · 14/02/2021 17:32

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

I just can't understand why people are not potty training their children anymore. Or teaching them to read or doing anything at all with them. My son was fully potty trained at three, it was bloody hard work but we did it. I don't think people want to put the work in, they just assume they will train themselves eventually.
And this is the sort of attitude that makes it so hard for parents of children with this sort of disorder.

It's not about failing to potty train a child. It's about a medical or psychological disorder. I've taught the occasional child with this kind of disorder, and the parents agonise over it, and try everything.

Having said that, this mother relying on her friend the GP is just ridiculous. A professional referral is needed of this is happening at 5.

Mumofsend · 14/02/2021 17:48

I am mum of a 4.5 year old DS with various needs and not toilet trained. He has an EHCP recently issued. He was in a childminder 11months-3.5 and I actually pulled him out because even though the CM hadn't refused it was fairly obvious they couldn't really meet his needs and the needs of the other kids simultaneously. I don't think its really fair on childminders. Preschools/nurseries are a bit different IMO.

EveryDayIsADuvetDay · 14/02/2021 17:55

so if SIL doesn't want to toilet train her daughter, how about offering the childminder a £50 bonus for each pile of shit she has to clear up?

A five year old not able to use the toilet and shitting everywhere almost daily wouldn't be my first choice of client.
In her position and you had the option of a toilet trained child or one that was "too lazy" - which would you choose. Fair enough at two - but five?

Incrediblytired · 14/02/2021 18:18

Also, even if it was discriminatory (which it isn’t) can you imagine forcing someone to look after a child which they don’t want to look after? That would be hideous for the child.

Blondephantom · 14/02/2021 18:21

The childminder is being unreasonable if they haven't reported the parents for medical neglect. It is a very clear safeguarding issue. As many other posters have said, the parents need to make an appointment for their child.

Frazzled2207 · 14/02/2021 18:24

Our school nursery won’t accept children (who start at 3 or even 2) without them being potty trained.
cm is within her rights to say no. SIL needs to sort it out.

Mumofsend · 14/02/2021 18:27

@Frazzled2207 schools are not allowed to have blanket toilet training policies like that.

Frazzled2207 · 14/02/2021 18:30

@Mumofsend
I am aware but nursery teacher very insistent. Luckily I did not need to challenge.

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 14/02/2021 18:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

OliviaPopeRules · 14/02/2021 18:32

Jesus Christ stop worrying about the childminder and tell you sister to take your DN to the doctor. 2 years and she hasn't been to the doctor. That poor child and to top it off she is being called lazy! She could very easily be constipated and even if she isn't by this time NHS would have referred her to a clinic to sort this.

Mumofsend · 14/02/2021 18:33

@Frazzled2207 it is that sort of thing that does need to be challenged.

OliviaPopeRules · 14/02/2021 18:33

@Blondephantom

The childminder is being unreasonable if they haven't reported the parents for medical neglect. It is a very clear safeguarding issue. As many other posters have said, the parents need to make an appointment for their child.
Totally agree, also surprised the school have not raised as an issue. It really is negligent.
OliviaPopeRules · 14/02/2021 18:39

@minniemango

DN has been potty trained since she was 3 and is dry, but she has been a nightmare with poos. She does have either full poo accidents or dirty pants most days and the childminder had expressed before lockdown that she didn't want to deal with changing DN every day.
Oh and by the way the dirty pants comment (probably very small hard bits of poo) makes me think very much that this child is constipated and being punished for it. It really is shameful the way she is being treated op. The CM is not the problem get parents are.
Sjh84 · 14/02/2021 18:40

PLEASE encourage a visit to the GP - I suffered exactly this myself as a young child and they found that my bowels were full and impacted and I ended up on laxatives for a long time until it sorted out.

I'm in my late 30s now but I still clearly remember being shouted at by teachers, being called lazy, dirty etc. Adults made out that I was doing it on purpose but I wasn't. The sooner your DN gets help the better.

I think the childminder has done a favour by flagging it up!

AStudyinPink · 14/02/2021 18:43

Although I think it’s unreasonable to assume it isn’t a disability just because there is no confirmed disability, I wouldn’t send my child to a childminder who didn’t want them there.

Itsokthanks · 14/02/2021 18:47

I was going to say she's being unreasonable but then saw that's your niece is pooing herself daily, that's a bit different to the odd wee accident. Must be difficult if they're out and about.

Mamagotskills · 14/02/2021 18:47

There’s no discrimination unless DN has some kind of diagnosis, even then I wouldn’t want my DC going to someone I knew didn’t want them. Your DSis needs to get to a GP end get this sorted, I can’t imagine any other childcare wanting to deal with it either.

CM completely within their rights to terminate contract.

Emeraldshamrock · 14/02/2021 18:50

If it is a behaviour thing it would be an issue with the CM.
If SIL hasn't spoke to her HV in years she needs to get on it, it is a psychological issue my friends daughter is 11 she is still doing it, no SEN though I suspect there is.

CottonSock · 14/02/2021 18:51

@Shehasadiamondinthesky thank fuck you are not a health visitor with that attitude. Have you even read this thread. Perhaps you should go and educate yourself with some of the resources mentioned before labelling people crap lazy parents. Let's hope it doesn't happen to you/ your kids.