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AIBU?

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Original poster

Childminder kicking out child for not being potty trained is she BU?

477 replies

minniemango · 14/02/2021 14:04

My niece is currently not able to attend her childminder as SIL isn't a keyworker. SIL has contacted childminder about care resuming from March 8th and been told she will only have DN back if SIL can guarantee she will have no accidents.
Is the childminder being unreasonable, is this even allowed?
DN is 5 and in Reception, no SEN.

OP posts:
BunnyRuddington · 14/02/2021 15:47

We had urinary issues with my eldest and it was very difficult to get help as the GPS and health visitors just repeated that it's normal and she'll grow out of it. Finally got a diagnosis and treatment but it was a fight

Well done you for fighting for a diagnosis. In this case the Mother spoke to a HV two years ago. The Father hasn't been mentioned yet but both appear to be extremely neglectful.

Suzi888 · 14/02/2021 15:48

5Hmm when my four year old started school we were told they had to be toilet trained. You pee/poo you pick them up.
School won’t tolerate it, why should a childminder?
Unless there’s something else going on...

MadeOfStarStuff · 14/02/2021 15:50

Why the hell have this child’s parents not sought help for her? A five year old shouldn’t be having poo accidents every day! Asking a health visitor two years ago and then not bothering since is honestly neglectful! A three year old having accidents is pretty normal, a five year old is not and needs investigation to find out why. The child minder is probably utterly fed up of the parents not giving a shit about it or even attempting to get help to solve the problem.

Thirtyrock39 · 14/02/2021 15:53

I work in school nursing a d frequently have to tell parents to go back to gps to get a proper assessment of constipation . Your sister asking her gp friend isn't really good enough. Constipation is one of the most common reasons children get admitted to hospital and if treated early is fairly manageable although it takes time . If not treated it can cause some really unpleasant long term bowel problems, unusual behaviour - such as soiling- is often a sign, the actual poo isn't always typical of what we think of as constpation so really does need taking to a gp. Health visitors and school nurses can't diagnose but can give general advice about healthy bowel routines but it's the gp who needs to assess and treat.

Mummaofboys93 · 14/02/2021 15:56

As she's a childminder I believe she is allowed to pick & choose what children she does & doesn't want to take on. She ultimately works for herself, so I assume it is based around her own rules? I don't think it would be classes as illegal as someone had mentioned? & to be entirely honest OP, put yourself in CM shoes. Would you really want to be changing a 5 year olds soiled underwear every day? Especially if you're saying they're sometimes full poo's?! I definitely wouldn't want to be doing it! My son got a sudden fear of toilets he hasn't used before just before he turned 4 & started pooing himself slightly or wetting himself & it became frustrating for me that when I'd collecthim from nursery he had an accident that day. I worked hard with him to show him the toilet wasn't something to be scared of & eventually it worked. Then once he started Reception within the first week he had wet himself twice! So I explained to the teach he has a fear of new toilets & that if someone could just take him in there & flush the chain for him to show him its no different to the toilet at home or nursery he should be fine & he hadn't an accident since. Your SIL should be getting to the bottom of the issue. Not just saying oh well HV wasn't worried a few years ago?!

AdelaideK · 14/02/2021 15:56

She needs to go to the doctors. I'd imagine she has faecal impaction which movicol or similar will help with. Poor little girl.

strawberriesatmypicnic · 14/02/2021 16:00

At age 5 and with no sn I would expect a child to be completely potty trained. Must be a difficult situation for the mother though.

melj1213 · 14/02/2021 16:02

This poor child is being neglected and the only person who seems to want to do anything about it is the CM. If I knew the CM I would be advising them to make a social services referral at this point.

There is a difference between an occasional accident, accidents caused by diagnosed disability and lack of toilet training. By 5 my DD having an accident was extremely rare and there was usually a very clear cause eg wetting herself in the car on a motorway because we were stuck in a slow moving traffic jam, the next services was 10 miles ahead and she just couldnt hold on that long.

This is not the case with this child. She is having "accidents" on a daily basis. This is not normal and the CM should not be expected to deal with this and it is not discriminatory for her to say she is not equipped to deal with an (apparently) NT child who is not toilet trained and whose parents have no intention of doing anything about it.

JustLyra · 14/02/2021 16:02

@PurpleFlower1983

I’m surprised this has not been escalated by the school if it’s been going on for a while and nothing has been done.
A reception age child has hardly been in school with lockdowns.
CtrlU · 14/02/2021 16:04

I’m not being rude luv but I think that’s standard. At least where I live.

My sons nursery needed him potty/toilet trained from 3 years old.

In my opinion - I would expect a 5 year old to be using the toilet also. Sure you may have a few accidents here and there - but it shouldn’t be expected.

I don’t think they are being unreasonable

Pollypudding · 14/02/2021 16:07

Please encourage your sister in law to seek help from her GP or school nurse. The article linked below says only 1% of girls aged 5 have faecal incontinence and there seems to be a lot of treatment options. It is not the CMs responsibility.
www.nursingtimes.net/archive/an-overview-of-faecal-incontinence-in-children-16-11-2007/

looselegs · 14/02/2021 16:10

Sounds like a medical problem. My daughter had incontinent constipation and her faeces became impacted, but then started to break down into a liquid. It leaked out on its accord- she couldn't help it- and on some days she needed cleaning up 4 or 5 times. I'm a childminder and I have to say that it's difficult to deal with when you have other children to care for.

PatchworkElmer · 14/02/2021 16:12

Get the poor kid to the GP. It might be behavioural, might not. But she clearly needs help.

BergamotMouse · 14/02/2021 16:13

She needs to discuss this with the GP. My daughter was having normal looking poos every day but would have regular soiling. Turns out she was extremely constipated and they often lose the sensation of needing a poo / poo can leak around the impaction. We had no idea. Medication has sorted it completely.

Daphnise · 14/02/2021 16:14

I agree with the childminder.

cameocat · 14/02/2021 16:14

CM perfectly in their right to refuse.

A) covid and socially distancing cannot happen whilst supporting the child after accident
B) she may argue that the time taken in supporting an accident and clearing up leaves the other children unsupervised for too long
C) she may be oversubscribed and decided she would rather not have to deal with this
D) she may not have the same help she had previously
E) she may have been willing to support a younger child with these episodes but had decided that by her age it is no longer acceptable

1FootInTheRave · 14/02/2021 16:14

That poor kid has useless, neglectful parents.

And you're all ragging on about discrimination?

Have a word with yourselves.

Stompythedinosaur · 14/02/2021 16:14

God, this thread has some horrible views on it. Both my dc have a health problem that resulted in chronic constipation and associated poo smearing accidents. Luckily both their school and childminder were fully supportive! At 5yo I imagine they are on the way to bring able to sort themselves out and change pants and put dirty ones in a bag so it isn't like the issue will last forever.

No parent can ever guarantee their dc won't have an accident, so it's a horrible think for a cm to ask, and doesn't show the sort of caring attitude I'd want in a cm anyway.

Thirtyrock39 · 14/02/2021 16:15

Yes saying it's behavioural is really unfair on your niece as if she's impacted she will have no control over her bowels. When really bad the bowel is actually so full it means the anus is not properly closed so poo leaks out - very distressing for anyone especially a young child .

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 14/02/2021 16:18

@Stompythedinosaur

God, this thread has some horrible views on it. Both my dc have a health problem that resulted in chronic constipation and associated poo smearing accidents. Luckily both their school and childminder were fully supportive! At 5yo I imagine they are on the way to bring able to sort themselves out and change pants and put dirty ones in a bag so it isn't like the issue will last forever.

No parent can ever guarantee their dc won't have an accident, so it's a horrible think for a cm to ask, and doesn't show the sort of caring attitude I'd want in a cm anyway.

I bet your way of dealing with it though wasn't oh, I talked to a HV two years ago and my GP friend said she's fine,just lazy.
AaronPurr · 14/02/2021 16:18

God, this thread has some horrible views on it.

Which views do you think are horrible? The childminder actually sounds like the only one who cares about the child, and this seems a last ditch attempt to force her parents to get her the help she obviously needs. Rather than just passing it off as laziness.

MummytoCSJH · 14/02/2021 16:19

My childminder kicked out - the week before Christmas - my son because she couldn't cope with his ADHD, an actual disability, and I had essentially no comeback despite it being a protected characteristic and her knowing about it and in fact specifically choosing her because she had experience with children with ADHD (he was just that bad before getting the support he needed). I could spend thousands going to court but it wasn't even worth it. I'm not sure what you expect to do whether it is allowed or not. Just find someone else.

JustLyra · 14/02/2021 16:20

@Stompythedinosaur

God, this thread has some horrible views on it. Both my dc have a health problem that resulted in chronic constipation and associated poo smearing accidents. Luckily both their school and childminder were fully supportive! At 5yo I imagine they are on the way to bring able to sort themselves out and change pants and put dirty ones in a bag so it isn't like the issue will last forever.

No parent can ever guarantee their dc won't have an accident, so it's a horrible think for a cm to ask, and doesn't show the sort of caring attitude I'd want in a cm anyway.

And did you ignore the issue for two full years and expect your CM to deal with it?

Did you neglect your child to the point that the only medical input you seeked was a casual question to a pal who was a GP?

If not your situation was completely different from this one

Lightningcrops · 14/02/2021 16:21

God, this thread has some horrible views on it. Both my dc have a health problem that resulted in chronic constipation and associated poo smearing accidents. Luckily both their school and childminder were fully supportive! At 5yo I imagine they are on the way to bring able to sort themselves out and change pants and put dirty ones in a bag so it isn't like the issue will last forever.

As a result of a medical condition that has been diagnosed and the parents are doing their best to manage medication/support is different to parents who just assume she is lazy and aren't actually taking any positive steps to getting their child checked out.

It is actually in the best interest of the child for a childminder to be honest about whether they can safely accommodate their needs, I don't think the CM is doing anything wrong.

JustLyra · 14/02/2021 16:23

@MummytoCSJH

My childminder kicked out - the week before Christmas - my son because she couldn't cope with his ADHD, an actual disability, and I had essentially no comeback despite it being a protected characteristic and her knowing about it and in fact specifically choosing her because she had experience with children with ADHD (he was just that bad before getting the support he needed). I could spend thousands going to court but it wasn't even worth it. I'm not sure what you expect to do whether it is allowed or not. Just find someone else.
It sounds like your CM went about it really badly, but CM's have to be able to say "I can't deal with this".

My DD's CM had to hold her hands up at one point and say "I can't cope with this" and she couldn't. DD needed more care than she could offer and the CM couldn't offer one-to-one care.

Otherwise you'd end up with children in potentially dangerous circumstances with people being forced to give them sub-standard care.