Moral Dilema

[Loveacoseynightin]

Hi, I've got a bit of a moral dilema and asking the good folks of Mumsnet for their opinion on this.

I have 2 daughters who will be spending the half term week at their dads. I am in receipt of free school meals vouchers for them.

Should I give dad the vouchers or use them for my weekly shop?

AIBU to use them for the shop when I haven't got them?

If the children were staying with grandparents over half term or on a school trip, should OP give the vouchers to the grandparents or return them?

@MessAllOver

If the children were staying with grandparents over half term or on a school trip, should OP give the vouchers to the grandparents or return them?

Same as with dad I think - offer them the vouchers, and if they decline, feel free to spend them. But spending them straight off when the kids are being fed somewhere else all week just doesn't feel right to me.

I think it's actually quite important that someone spends them but first dibs should go to the person looking after the kids. Hopefully dad/grandparents would just say no if they know mum needs it more.

Surely you qualify on the basis on your income and they dont? Therefore keep.them to use on the children when you have them - they arent intended for their father.

depends on the disparity in your incomes. Some people can claim FSM after income rises take them out of the criteria, also the tax credit limit is 16k earned income plus tax credit, maintenance, child benefit etc, so although people are assuming you’re on much lower income than him it’s not necessarily the case.

Keep the cash for food at your house. If you’re the main carer and your kids get free school meals then you’re income must be low enough to have entitlement.

If he was the main carer 2,5k income would mean he had no free school meals entitlement.

To be eligible for FSM you have to have an earned income of less than £7400 nett per annum. That's the criteria. It's based purely on nett income.
If the children's dad earns £2.5k per month he clearly does not meet this

@StarCourt

To be eligible for FSM you have to have an earned income of less than £7400 nett per annum. That's the criteria. It's based purely on nett income. If the children's dad earns £2.5k per month he clearly does not meet this

Exactly. And though the mother would be getting a bonus over a single parent who has their children all the time, someone should use the vouchers. It might be more fair to the father to offer the vouchers but if the focus is on what is best for the children then the mother should spend them.

There is one point that's missed here.
These vouchers are paid to the op. Op is responsible for how they are spent. Including if spent fraudulently on items not to biygh using them.
Given this, there's no way I'd be encouraging the op to pass these over. Especially as they can be audited and traced back to the op.

They are meant for op to spend, they were sent to her and not the dad. There is no formal guidance to offer them to the better earning non resident parent

@MessAllOver

If the children were staying with grandparents over half term or on a school trip, should OP give the vouchers to the grandparents or return them?

She should offer, yes. If the grandparents say no, then OP can count herself lucky and be very thankful that the taxpayer has given her a free 30 quid.

Or, she could just not spend them as she won’t need them what with having no children to feed that week.

If the children were staying with grandparents over half term or on a school trip, should OP give the vouchers to the grandparents or return them?

Of course she should. The money is supposed to be to feed the children not a bump up in income for the mother, so the vouchers go where the kids go.

@MessAllOver

If the children were staying with grandparents over half term or on a school trip, should OP give the vouchers to the grandparents or return them?

If on a school trip the children will be being fed so no vouchers required presumably?

If with Grandparents then if the Grandparents need them to be able to feed the children they get them, if they don't then they aren't required by anyone.

If the DC’s dad earns £2.5K a month then it doesn’t sound like the DC would be entitled to FSM if they lived with him most of the time. Theoretically he ought to be able to afford an extra £30 of groceries for his DC over half term, although of course we have no idea what his other outgoings are.

I’d keep the vouchers, OP, and spend them on stocking up on non-perishable food that the DC like to eat.
The vouchers are given out on the basis of your income, not your ex’s income.

OP it depends whether your ex is struggling. £2.5k may not go far depending on his outgoings. It might be kind to check with him.

If he is not struggling, and they do not experience food poverty in his care, then the vouchers would benefit the children more if you spent them on cupboard essentials which will ensure you aren't as close to the breadline once they return.

Being pedantic about who has them week by week is ridiculous in my opinion if only one of those households is impoverished. The vouchers should be used to ease the food poverty experienced by the girls while they are in your care. If you buy lots of pasta, rice and tinned goods, and perhaps some meat to freeze, you can use the vouchers you get on their return for more fresh produce you may not have been able to afford otherwise. Or use them for food for yourself and spend the money you would have used for yourself topping up essentials once they return. Or use them now to make and freeze batches of meals which you can use on their return.

The point of the voucher is to ease food poverty for the children and honestly who gives a shit whether it bought ingredients for a meal this week or next if their other parent isn't struggling. It's about what's best for your children.

I assumed the vouchers wouldn't cover the half term and would resume when school starts back?
They're for your DD's benefit so I would offer him the vouchers or spend them on non perishables for when they return to yours.

If maintenance were included in the calculation, OP might not be entitled to them either considering she gets £400 a month.

Theoretically, parents who are given FSM vouchers for the holidays should be able to afford their children’s lunches without them seeing as before the pandemic parents were expected to feed their own children from their benefits or other income while they weren’t at school. And it doesn’t cost £30 to feed two children lunch for five days anyway.

I wonder if OPs ex keeps some of his maintenance on the months like this one where he has his children more than usual because of school holidays.

Those saying they shouldn't need to be used at all if the children aren't in her care are unkind- if OP and her children are really struggling to buy food then of course she should try to stockpile reserves for them. What if her boiler breaks or she needs to buy a new washing machine? Are you really so mean that you'd rather the family live week by week just to prove a point and not make the most of a tiny buffer of £30 of cupboard essentials which might tide them over if they happen to have a lot less one month?

We spend billions on a nuclear program. We can afford an occasional £30 spent on fucking pasta.

If he earns £2,500 per month, then he doesn't need them as much as you do. Keep it and use it, and don't t feel bad because your household was assessed and awarded free school dinners (not his).

Stock up for when the kids get back. Next week when they're back at school they can have a good evening meal too.

As PP, the welfare system is not generous and I'm sure that recipients of FSM still struggle to feed their families for the other 2 meals and at weekends.

I know when my Ds1 was young, there were many times I went without an evening meal. Times he couldn't have a friend over as I didn't have enough food for 2 children.

My dad was not a good man. He would have taken the vouchers and not used them out of principle... don't want people thinking he's got no money... but don't want to miss out on scoring a point or 2 against mum either.

He would not be entitled to fsm with that salary. Keep the vouchers, the grocery shop you do with them will still benefit the children when they are back with you.

I wonder if OPs ex keeps some of his maintenance on the months like this one where he has his children more than usual because of school holidays.

Don’t be ridiculous, maintenance is worked out based on number of nights per year the non resident parent has the children. It isn’t a month to month thing.

Do whatever you think is best for your children which is what you no doubt do 24/7 365 anyway I think offering the vouchers for one child is a very good compromise use the other to add to your cupboard/freezer stores and get the nicer Easter eggs/treats for them god knows its a bleak charity free world enough as it is. I am childless and we are in the fortunate position my husband is working and paying plenty of tax and we have nothing to complain about and have no issue with paying to support other people's children life is hard enough for everyone without begrudging the small amount for one week. Hope the girls enjoy the week with their Dad and that you enjoy the rest 😘

I wouldn’t want to risk messing up whatever voucher system is in place by attempting to transfer some of them to him, especially as he doesn’t actually qualify for them.

I would use the vouchers to buy 5. days of relatively long life / freezable lunches for the children (E.g tins of beans, cheese, bread etc) and offer him the actual food.

@NativityDreaming

I wonder if OPs ex keeps some of his maintenance on the months like this one where he has his children more than usual because of school holidays.

Don’t be ridiculous, maintenance is worked out based on number of nights per year the non resident parent has the children. It isn’t a month to month thing.

That’s assuming that they used the CMS calculator, which not everyone does. And it’s assuming that if they did use the calculator, they included the nights in the holidays. It’s not uncommon for people to use the most regular information and say that the NRP has the child one night a week for example, even though it might be more in the holidays.

Either way, the voucher is for the child’s lunch, not for the parent to have a lucky bonus when the other parent is feeding them.