Punishing the wrong person aibu

[Createsuser]

So this is for a friend but it’s lockdown and there’s not much else to do.

DF has two DC’s A- sensible, mature and B- impulsive funny and cheeky. She comes from quite a traditional family who are fairly strict. During a recent family Zoom call with the grandparents B made some off colour jokes then when the grandfather gave her a firm telling off hung up on him. The grandfather has now issued some punishments (don’t want to say what as it would be outing) to A and B. A wasn’t involved and told B off for being a fool and said she should have known the grandparents would be upset. So in essence A is now being punished for B’s behaviour which he didn’t agree with. The grandparents won’t listen to A’s side of the story. WWYD and Aibu to think this is unfair?

@Createsuser

It is genuinely a friend and not me. The friend is going to try to do something for A. A probably doesn’t approve of his sister’s behaviour and did say something but he seems to have taken it on the chin. From what I know, he can understand why his grandfather has behaved that way. The grandparent is quite elderly and set in his ways but probably not as old fashioned as he appears on here.

It's A here that's worrying me.

B was a cheeky shite and there will be consequences.

But A is defending the grandfather punishing them too "for the greater good" and that's a power balance that feels really uncomfortable to me.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

This thread perfectly illuatrates why you shouldn't let yourself depend on grandparents to pay for anything for your children - there are always strings and its always a power play even if it's an unconcious one.

You don't know what the general behaviour is You don't know if a child is "cheeky" or a rude and entitled little Madam You don't know if the grand-parent are over-reacting about a silly joke or are fed up with constant rudeness

I wouldn't tolerate rudeness from my kids and have the same expectations regardless of gifts or no gifts.

I just think it's very wrong to punish the other child
but would love to know if they are making a point towards their own child .

It's impossible to say without knowing the details but I think it's very interesting that A agrees with their grandfather even though it negatively affects them.
That would suggest that this is probably the straw that broke the camels back for the grandfather. In which case your friend needs to teach her child not to be rude and disresectful to anybody.
As others have said playing it down with 'she's cheeky' won't help her going forward.

astudy ... not in my eyes. You can’t control someone’s behaviour by bank rolling. Its quite creepy to bank roll in order to control their life/behaviour. An 11 year old child makes a mistake/bad judgement, fir which she apologised, and bank rolling is immediately withdrawn.

I think “bankrolling” is exaggerating the matter, based on the information here. It’s a treat or privilege that has been withdrawn. And it depends on how rude B was, whether I agree that GF is reasonable. That’s the missing information.

@QueenoftheAir

Then B hung up because she was hurt.

Your friend needs to have sharp words with her daughter - both the jokes & hanging up were downright rude. If B was "hurt" - well, she needs to learn the consequences of unnecessary hurtful behaviour.

Ding ding we have a winner

The whole family seems a bit tbh! How did it get to the point of her being able to “tell 3 jokes” (sing songs or whatever it was)?! If everyone was sitting around open mouthed at her audacity then why didn’t they say something after the first one?? They just sat there for another rude joke/song becoming more slack-jawed at the rude cheekiness of the creature and then became stupefied into silence at the third infraction? Why on EARTH didn’t someone say “B...that’s enough. It’s not funny and GF (is too sensitive!) is upset and we don’t talk to people we care about like that”? I’m guessing it’s something like school fees or extra-curricular activities that he’s withdrawn in which case that’s really crappy. Was it explained at the start of these gifts that they would be conditional on good behaviour at all times? Did B know that the thing could be withdrawn because of something like this? If not, completely unfair to take it away. It doesn’t encourage good behaviour as it’s not a logical consequence (unless the GF said at the start of the gift “I will take this away if you do something I deem to be rude so understand that it’s not unconditional”). A’s reaction suggests he’s already down the patriarchy rabbit hole. So much for GPs being the warm, friendly people who sneak you sweets and let you stay up late!

VettiyaIruken if the grandfather was paying school fees and has now stopped doing so because of a cheeky 11 year old's jokes then he's an astonishingly unpleasant person - that's life changing for both his grandchildren and more so for the older one, who will struggle more changing schools. Again illustrates why never to give a grandparent this kind of power though! If you can't afford it yourself don't do it - its far worse to make yourself hostage to the whims of a petulant grandparent than not to go to private school in the first place!

Is anybody else picturing Marlon Brando in the role of Grandad?

Why the hell is a grandfather the head of the household? Bollox to that.

My dd at a similar age was really rude to me in front of my dsil and her cousin.
But it was one of those showing off , went too far moments so I just told her not to be rude and calm down.
Sometimes a short sharp reprimand is all that's needed.
The gp's have gone too far imo.

Iknowwhatudidlastsummer giving a grandparent that degree of power over your family is a mistake regardless of any other considerations.

Is A also the butt of Bs jokes?

Grandpa needs to get over it 🙄 he's the grown up here, what's he teaching the kids about sulking, and throwing his toys out the pram. Not the best way to resolve any issue.

@Createsuser

DFriend can’t replace it no but she could do something smaller which I believe she has already decided to do.

That does not in any way sound like school fees.

Withdrawing B’s gift (whatever it was) is the punishment. Withdrawing it from A to further punish B (in that B is now living with the guilt that she caused A to lose whatever it was) is cruel. It’s aimed to divide the children. A is decent enough not to blame B. Maybe A is accepting of the situation because he realises he could have intervened and didn’t? I think it’s horribly unfair on A but it is the grandparents choice. They sound rich and this can always be held over the family, who should be careful never to take their gifts for granted. Either pull away from manipulative gift giving or take it as it comes without any expectations.

Yes, agree that As accepting of the behaviour as acceptable is a problem in itself. Hes learning how to be a man. He thinks now that collectively punishing your family and using the power given by funding things is right.

Your friend needs to undo this damage. She needs to tell A clearly that her father is in the wrong to a) use his money/gift to control behaviour and b) punish everyone because one person upset him. That being a man isn't about making sure everyone tip toes around your feelings.

The family message needs to be, grandad threw a tantrum and over reacted. B was rude, but grandad was out of order punishing everyone and not making clear before you accepted his gift that it came with strings attached.

Grandad should be left to stew for a while and make a family policy of accepting no gifts from grandad in the future.

I really do hope it’s not school fees or they will both have a life changing effect.

If you punish kids it needs to be finite, it sounds like he has given them no chance of future forgiveness

Is the gift separately given? Ie not a Netflix subscription which both can enjoy but, for example, riding lessons for each child?

If it was about my DF and my kids I would make sure the child would apologise, have one go at calmly explain the situation (sounds like both have been done). If my DF would continue his tantrum after that withholding something that he provides for all his grandchildren (from your description is either expensive hobby/class or school fees) I would tell DF to go and shove his money in his backside. In my view similar situation should be resolved with conversations, explaining to the child how she shouldnt offend people, that sometimes her comments might be taken badly. Making her apologise. Not telling her someone with more money is going to punish them financially.

@PhilCornwall1

Usually B’s cheeky good humour is much needed and well received.

Or people are just smiling and really thinking, what a cheeky little shit. Very much what I think of one of my youngests friends.

This

the first joke - a bit of a look from the parents
second joke - "Tarquina, that's enough you are being rude!"
the thrird - (she shouldnt have got to that point) I would have cut her out of the zoom call myself

Your friend is letting her set her own boundaries under the guise of cheeky and funny. I seriously doubt anyone else is finding her cheeky and funny just ruddy obnoxious and a PITA

The GF is obviously being unfair on the DS but the DS sounds like a lovely lad they can all learn from

So an 11 yr old was making jokes about noises, but not about the gf, and the gf was offended and shouted and withdrew privileges because he is sensitive about his nose. Could he not have pointed out that he didn't like her jokes and they change the topic.... you know, like the adult in the situation.

As for the boat he sank, that is totally fair game to take the piss out of in my book.

Sounds like GF - head of family- can't handle young girl being carefree and vocal.

Oh FGS is this song lyrics OP? Are you bored? Do I win a prize?

According to my friend they didn’t realise for a few moments then there was a collective silence. B didn’t realise and carried on then the Grandfather started yelling and B disconnected. B later apologised but the grandparents aren’t speaking to them, and only communicating through the written word.

B was rude. She needs to call.him up and apologise. A should also call him and ask if hes okay, as he is clearly upset.

People are making some frankly out of line assumptions about A.

He's a boy, so he must be a little scion of the patriarchy? What a toxic attitude. I could spin a tale out of the idea that A is always the butt of B's jokes, but there's fuck all evidence for that either.

The sea shanties example was made up by the OP. It isn't real, and unless we know the facts, we can't judge. The OP's opinion of B's cheekiness being enjoyed by others is subjective.

The best piece of evidence is that A was there, and A doesn't think it's a big deal. (Possibly if the treat is given the same to all children then not all of them equally enjoy it)