Punishing the wrong person aibu

[Createsuser]

So this is for a friend but it’s lockdown and there’s not much else to do.

DF has two DC’s A- sensible, mature and B- impulsive funny and cheeky. She comes from quite a traditional family who are fairly strict. During a recent family Zoom call with the grandparents B made some off colour jokes then when the grandfather gave her a firm telling off hung up on him. The grandfather has now issued some punishments (don’t want to say what as it would be outing) to A and B. A wasn’t involved and told B off for being a fool and said she should have known the grandparents would be upset. So in essence A is now being punished for B’s behaviour which he didn’t agree with. The grandparents won’t listen to A’s side of the story. WWYD and Aibu to think this is unfair?

astudy ... I too don’t know and never implied I did. However, if I put myself in the shoes of an 11 year old child, enjoying a family zoom call, singing or whatever she was doing, then suddenly getting shouted at by my grandad, not knowing what I’d done wrong ... I’d be feeling humiliated and confused.

I’ve said all along we can’t say either way as we don’t know the circumstances ... however, my point still stands that an 11 year old child has apologised but that’s not deemed good enough. She is a young child. By the account given, she was not being malicious. She is a child fgs, yet it seems she is expected to think and behave like a mature adult.

AStudyinPink

I do think there is something a bit off with an older man not taking an apology from a young girl and then giving a punishment that also punishes her brother so her brother also will punish her as well

What are you implying

That B has to learn to toe the line when any male tells her to do something and then she gets paid/a treat.

And A has learned he needs to keep his sister in order and then he gets paid/a treat

The whole thing sounds toxic

If the grandfather is not accepting Bs apology and is lapping up all the sympathy then it makes it even worse.

Have you read the full thread viv ... obviously not judging by your remark.

@Bythemillpond

I feel sorry for B as I can see I do this sort of thing. I have alienated so many people over the years. I have only to let myself be happy in company and I will take it a step too far. It is alright saying to watch what I say but the only way I can do that is to never ever relax when in company.

He’s usually mild tempered but when he gets angry he can overreact. She’s letting him calm down for a week or two. She suspects he enjoys all the apologies, drama and texts and doesn’t want to play into that

It is when B understands what is going on that the major damage is done.
I know I have seen this before when someone laps up the attention over something I have said and continues to feel overly hurt.
As you can’t do anything else the only way to move forward is to cut them out.

I think it must be hard for B having to live up to her perfect brothers life.
I can’t see long term this ending well.

I do think there is something a bit off with an older man not taking an apology from a young girl and then giving a punishment that also punishes her brother so her brother also will punish her as well

Something just doesn’t sit right with me.

You tell off-colour rude jokes in company and then accuse the people you’ve upset of lapping up the attention? Wow.

That B has to learn to toe the line when any male tells her to do something and then she gets paid/a treat.

That’s her parents’ responsibility. What you call ‘toeing the line’, however, some people just call not mocking their relatives.

I’ve not picked it up as she mocked her relatives .... it sounds like songs/jokes that kids would be singing/telling that for some reason struck an off chord with the grandfather.

However, if I put myself in the shoes of an 11 year old child, enjoying a family zoom call, singing or whatever she was doing, then suddenly getting shouted at by my grandad, not knowing what I’d done wrong ... I’d be feeling humiliated and confused.

But ‘singing or whatever she was doing’ obfuscates the fact that the OP said she repeated a joke at her GF’s expense no fewer than three times. There is a suggestion that she didn’t mean to be rude - perhaps not. But there’s also a suggestion that everyone else could tell it was rude, so maybe she should know by now, and this is the time for her to learn.

I’ve not picked it up as she mocked her relatives .... it sounds like songs/jokes that kids would be singing/telling that for some reason struck an off chord with the grandfather.

It doesn’t sound like that to me.

@AStudyinPink you’re making assumptions that grandad is justified and child was very rude, same as I’m making assumptions that grandad overreacted and is acting like a spoilt brat.
You asked me how I knew first.

@AStudyinPink

I’ve not picked it up as she mocked her relatives .... it sounds like songs/jokes that kids would be singing/telling that for some reason struck an off chord with the grandfather.

It doesn’t sound like that to me.

No, nor me. It sounds utterly weird AF really (noses and sunken yachts and sea shanties ) but I can’t help but feel she would be described as ‘spirited’ and to anyone other than her (immediate) family she’s a bit of a handful.

Don't know how I missed all those updates, but after reading them, it seems that B wasn't being intentionally mocking and Grandfather has had a massive overreaction. He sounds less mature than his own grandson!

If they've tried explaining and he's still in a sulk and enjoying all the drama I think there's not much more they can do. Maybe just one more message ("B is very sorry, A is disappointed by the whole affair, and no offence was intended. There's nothing more we can say. You know how to contact us when you're ready to talk.") and then leave it to them to make the next move.

If my grandparents had treated me so unfairly at that age, I can guarantee it would have damaged out relationship, and if my parents were so callous to my own child, I'd be hurt by that, too.

If Grandfather is elderly, he might want to consider the kind of impression he's leaving. He may not have that many years left with his family. Does he want to be remembered more for his "principle" or his mercy and love?

you’re making assumptions that grandad is justified and child was very rude, same as I’m making assumptions that grandad overreacted and is acting like a spoilt brat.

I’m not making assumptions that he is justified. I’ve said I’d need more information to make that judgement. But the OP’s information is enough to tell me the 11 year old was rude to her grandad.

He was appalled at the jokes and thought they (collectively) had been taking the mickey out of them.
They are A(13) and B(11). She had obviously just heard these jokes and not thought about the effect they would have.
It wasn’t intended to be rude was but was taken that way.

I’ve not picked it up as she mocked her relatives .... it sounds like songs/jokes that kids would be singing/telling that for some reason struck an off chord with the grandfather

So this point I made earlier still stands. Doesn’t sound like mocking her relatives.

AStudyinPink

I would add that I think that there is enough information to say that its not the first time either.

But thread has gone too far in one direction for any reasonable debate on this.

Ileflottante
Not really jokes but more about pointing out an aspect of something that has been in the news or something someone has done and the absurdity of it. Or pointing out people who are clearly lying.
Sometimes I am asked my opinion. As an example I was asked if I would be upset if a house I bought had been trashed between my viewing and moving in.
I said I would be livid. Then it gets relayed to someone who had trashed her house and left it in a state for the new owners and was crying as I had upset her and everyone was crowding round saying she was being sued by the new owners and I should have been more supportive. I didn’t know this woman, she worked in a different department to me so how was I to know I was supposed to be supportive of someone who had trashed her house and was upset because someone had called her out on it and apparently I was the only one who had said that I would have been upset to find a trashed house.

I really don’t get these mysterious social cues as from my perspective people only want to be lied to.

I think there can’t really be a debate anyway unless we know what was said and what treat/payment was removed.

@Blindstupid

I think there can’t really be a debate anyway unless we know what was said and what treat/payment was removed.

There is that as well.

I don't get why people are so insistent that treats can't be linked to specific behaviour.

It's probably more common than not in the real world that how you treat people affects their likelihood to give you stuff. From friendships to work, this is normal.

I fired a woman for a cheeky joke she apologised for. At least that's how she probably tells the story. I tell it as I fired a woman for making a racist joke about a customer then lying and minimising it afterwards.

It's also the case that what someone takes in good humour one day might catch them on the raw the next. If the girl is allowed to have bad feelings because of the pandemic, then so is the grandfather. A few days to cool off is probably best for all.

I'd bet the hanging up the call was considered the last straw in rudeness - it wasn't just her on the call to hang up, and I notice that the "strong talk" has become shouting to some.

If B has apologised but the GF won't accept the apology then there is nothing your friend can do.

Your friend shouldn't have to grovel and B certainly shouldn't.

If the apology was genuine then your friend just has to wait until the GF has calmed down/got over himself (depending on your point of view)

From what I can see B waas rude cheeky twice once with the jokes and secondly hanging up when it is objected to
A is in an unfrtunate situation and DF should email her own father ansd explain A wasn't invloved B should also write to her grandfather saying while she didn't intend being rude she now understands it was and is sorry and is also sorry for hanging up instead of listening
The grandfather then needs to accept apologies and move on,
while I do not think Grandparents paying things like school fees should withdraw on a whim I do not think gifts have to be so unconditional that they have to be maintained regardless of whether they are gratefully for them or treat their grandparents with respect
however if grandfather was paying for a treat at Easter, he could decide the treat is still not going to happen but we can move on and it won't affect anything else further on and the subject is not raised again, B remebers not to tell jokes that could be humiliating and GF doesn't mention issue again
if my Mum had said she would get my DD (also 11) a new bag for example then DD was really rude and my mum said I'm not buying the bag now, I would support that and expect DD to apologise, but I would not expect my Mum to raise the issue again after that unless there was more rudeness from DD, apologising doesn't generally get consequence removed but it enables people to move on quicker and forget about it,.

@Blindstupid

I think there can’t really be a debate anyway unless we know what was said and what treat/payment was removed.

Moreover the truth probably sits somewhere in between the wildly projected extremes that some are imagining.

(I do wonder how people with a fixation on the patriarchy handle any male-female interactions in real life - but the the woman I fired for the racist "cheeky joke" used to sulk about "the patriarchy" every time she was being a twat and her male manager pulled her up.)

No you are making assumptions. You weren’t there and don’t even know the actual real real he was offended for gods sake!! Do you always have such a problem accepting that you don’t know it all??

You weren’t there and don’t even know the actual real real he was offended for gods sake!! Do you always have such a problem accepting that you don’t know it all?? confused

I’m literally saying we don’t have enough information to know it all.

Manipulative nasty grandad. I know just the type of old man he is and he is absolutely loving the power he has over them, the apologies, the ability to take something away from a child. He can go fuck himself really.