Punishing the wrong person aibu

[Createsuser]

So this is for a friend but it’s lockdown and there’s not much else to do.

DF has two DC’s A- sensible, mature and B- impulsive funny and cheeky. She comes from quite a traditional family who are fairly strict. During a recent family Zoom call with the grandparents B made some off colour jokes then when the grandfather gave her a firm telling off hung up on him. The grandfather has now issued some punishments (don’t want to say what as it would be outing) to A and B. A wasn’t involved and told B off for being a fool and said she should have known the grandparents would be upset. So in essence A is now being punished for B’s behaviour which he didn’t agree with. The grandparents won’t listen to A’s side of the story. WWYD and Aibu to think this is unfair?

B has no manners. Grandfather can withhold treats if he likes.
If they're not your children, why do you care?

GF seems well over the top here, and I think the mum’s right to take a step back and let him get on with whatever stewing he feels entitled to. Eventually, I would ask GF why he wanted child A to be punished. I’d be quite persistent about teasing that out (perfectly politely, of course). GF needs to understand he was, at the least, unfair to child A. And possibly also to child B, though it’s impossible to say for sure without more detail on what was actually said, and the context. Whatever was said, though, child B does not deserve to be ostracised by GPs for any length of time. They need to learn to forgive.

The truth is this is probably a very nice, generous set of grandparents

SecretSPaD, you say others are projecting, and then go on to project yourself! How can you say ‘the truth is’ and then ‘probably’?! The truth is you just don’t know. None of us know, as OP hasn’t given enough details on what child B said, what GF is usually like etc. The ‘head of the family’ guff makes him sound like an insufferably pompous patriarchal arse, on the face of it, but perhaps child B’s behaviour really was as awful as his reaction suggests. Who knows?

@AStudyinPink

It’s so common (unfortunately) for parents to think their child’s rudeness is “spirit”. Spirit isn’t not saying thank you for birthday presents or mocking people for their appearances or being surly when someone is being kind to you. It’s just bad manners.

Whilst I agree with this, we don't actually know that B was doing anything lik ethis do we?

All we have been told is B was singing sea shanties and a year earlier the GF had sunk a yacht which is not like the pointedness or mocking someone's appearance. Unless the GF had said 'you're upsetting me' in which case that woudl be different.

The original thing about talking about 'noses' wasn't true.

It is all very hard to judge without proper information from the OP

@Createsuser

From what I understand the grandfather is annoyed with them all and has withdrawn from them all. He’s usually mild tempered but when he gets angry he can overreact. She’s letting him calm down for a week or two. She suspects he enjoys all the apologies, drama and texts and doesn’t want to play into that. B has never been cruel so was definitely being thoughtless but she apologised immediately and is contrite. Friend doesn’t want B to get too upset so it’s very much business as usual and minimising it.

Grandfather sounds manipulative.

SecretSPaD, you say others are projecting, and then go on to project yourself! How can you say ‘the truth is’ and then ‘probably’?! The truth is you just don’t know. None of us know, as OP hasn’t given enough details on what child B said, what GF is usually like etc. The ‘head of the family’ guff makes him sound like an insufferably pompous patriarchal arse, on the face of it, but perhaps child B’s behaviour really was as awful as his reaction suggests. Who knows?

This is rapidly becoming my favourite response to MN this weekend

🙄

its weird you only have these issues in families with a lot of money, they can hold it over generations to come.
I cant imagine being so sensitive over my own grandchildren for making silly jokes. Wheres the warmth?
If the grandparents werent wealthy then they would be much more likely to tell him to wind his neck in,but obviously everyone is terrified of losing inheritance

No one has to accept an apology but if they really are at this place, they would all be best to just cut their losses for the time being anyway. Sometimes thinmgs just calm down of their own accord when a little time passes.

@Createsuser - I can understand what you say about your friend not wanting to feed into the drama, so being ‘business as usual’ about things - but I can’t help feeling that this is letting both children down. B needs to know that her behaviour was beyond the pale, and that her parents disapprove of what she did. I’m not saying they should lock her into a cupboard until her grandfather forgives her, but there needs to be some indication for her that she overstepped the mark, and needs to learn a lesson from it - I’m not sure she will see this, if mum is being ‘business as usual’ about it.

And more importantly, to my mind, she is letting A down, because she is letting her father punish A unfairly, for something that absolutely was not his fault. She is showing A that her father can treat him very unfairly, and she ill not stand up for her own son.

I well remember my mum not standing up for me (in different circumstances, but still it hurt me at the time, and still does), and A is going to learn the lesson that his mum won’t stand up for him - he won’t forget it.

Whilst I agree with this, we don't actually know that B was doing anything lik ethis do we?

No. I’m just talking about a lot of the replies, which appear to assume it could only be this, not genuine rudeness.

This is rapidly becoming my favourite response to MN this weekend

🙄

Go you!

B has never been cruel so was definitely being thoughtless but she apologised immediately and is contrite. Friend doesn’t want B to get too upset so it’s very much business as usual and minimising it.

She didn't apologise immediately. When called up on it, she terminated the call.

I think the last sentence says a lot Friend doesn’t want B to get too upset so it’s very much business as usual and minimising it
That's probably the crux of the matter. It's not the first time and the gf is sick of her behaviour being minimised. So is A, who probably is in the firing line, and is told to stop being silly and overacting if they say they're upset too.

@AStudyinPink but she’s apologised. End of.
Also he got wound up over nothing in my opinion (re OPs further boat/see shanty example). Pathetic. And they say kids have no resilience! Absolutely embarrassing for him.

@AStudyinPink but she’s apologised. End of.

That’s not how apologies work.

Also he got wound up over nothing in my opinion (re OPs further boat/see shanty example). Pathetic.

But the example could mean anything. How do you know what wound him up?

It would appear the grandfather knows that's A wasn't involved which leads me to believe that he's cross with him for not keeping better control of his sister.
B now realises being rude can have consequences and being cheeky is no longer considered cute.
She will likely also come to realise the toxicity of patriarchy hopeful she only had a few more years of being under the thumb.

A has realised that respecting and being obedient to his grandfather is no longer enough he now has to behave as him too in order to keep the privileges bestowed upon him by the grandfather. He now has to clamp that thumb down hard especially in front of family, B must be brought to heel.

For all their sakes I hope the parents are decent people and make this break from the toxic grandfather permanent.

"It would appear the grandfather knows that's A wasn't involved which leads me to believe that he's cross with him for not keeping better control of his sister.
B now realises being rude can have consequences and being cheeky is no longer considered cute.
She will likely also come to realise the toxicity of patriarchy hopeful she only had a few more years of being under the thumb.

A has realised that respecting and being obedient to his grandfather is no longer enough he now has to behave as him too in order to keep the privileges bestowed upon him by the grandfather. He now has to clamp that thumb down hard especially in front of family, B must be brought to heel.

For all their sakes I hope the parents are decent people and make this break from the toxic grandfather permanent."

This.

I wouldn’t expose my kids to this kind of patriarchy. Head of the family? Takes his role seriously?

I would never allow my kids to behave like B did without being called on it. Fine line between cheeky and rude brat.

But forget the head of the family shit and throwing your weight around and punching innocent kids (A) to make a point.

Punishing not punching!

@AStudyinPink how do YOU know?
Are you the cranky grandad?

I think that the granddad is punishing A as well as B because he was there to see his humiliation.

Summersun2020

I’m not saying I know.

It's truly sad for the GP to respond this well. Rather childish too.

This will cause resentment between your DDs. I'm 2 years older than my DS, and used to get punished as well whenever she did anything wrong. I withdrew and resented her for many years as a result.

It's unfair of Grandfather to punish A for something B did, unless he felt that A was "in on it" somehow. Maybe he felt she was amused or should have spoken up to defend him? (Well, who knows what's going on in his head?!) Or are they shunning the entire family because they blame their own child for not teaching B respect?

I'd say the parent should calmly express to Grandfather (possibly through Grandmother, if she's more approachable) that A truly didn't have anything to do with it and is hurt that she's being punished for something B did.

It might not make a difference, and I'm not sure how blunt I'd be, but I'd want to communicate to Grandfather (and Grandmother) that they are teaching their grandchildren how they want to be treated, themselves. B was very wrong and should be punished, but if they are unfair to A, they're not setting a good example and are damaging their relationship with her by punishing her unfairly. Do they want to be remembered for being unfair? Do they want to create distance in their relationship with A?

well = way

@Branleuse

its weird you only have these issues in families with a lot of money, they can hold it over generations to come. I cant imagine being so sensitive over my own grandchildren for making silly jokes. Wheres the warmth? If the grandparents werent wealthy then they would be much more likely to tell him to wind his neck in,but obviously everyone is terrified of losing inheritance

Bollocks. My family have money. Showing respect by not making rude jokes about something sensitive to any one in that family, irrespective of age, is nothing to do with money or lack of. It is basic respect.

My father has been known to fund various things for his grandchildren. He does it because he loves them and wants to treat them, however if they were rude and obnoxious to him, upset him or hurt him, he would, naturally be less inclined to help them. Just as I removed my support for my niece years ago after she showed a disgusting lack of respect to me and my husband (she's since turned into a lovely woman who is mortified by how bratty she was at 13).

Grandfather withholds some sort of treat or payment from rude entitled brats. MN - Grandfather is toxic