Punishing the wrong person aibu

[Createsuser]

So this is for a friend but it’s lockdown and there’s not much else to do.

DF has two DC’s A- sensible, mature and B- impulsive funny and cheeky. She comes from quite a traditional family who are fairly strict. During a recent family Zoom call with the grandparents B made some off colour jokes then when the grandfather gave her a firm telling off hung up on him. The grandfather has now issued some punishments (don’t want to say what as it would be outing) to A and B. A wasn’t involved and told B off for being a fool and said she should have known the grandparents would be upset. So in essence A is now being punished for B’s behaviour which he didn’t agree with. The grandparents won’t listen to A’s side of the story. WWYD and Aibu to think this is unfair?

@AStudyinPink in what way can he not accept it? Where exactly will that end up? Think it through.

He doesn't accept it so the 11yr old is forever in the wrong. Never forgiven. Punished for the rest of his life?

She is a child. Children do silly things. We forgive them because otherwise where do they go with that? Forever with the feeling they are so bad and do such bad things they can never be forgiven?!

Ffs child is 11. Grandad needs a grip and he is being totally unfair to 13 year old.

@TheGoodEnoughWife yes to this!

TheGoodEnoughWife

Sorry, I don’t know what you are replying to, exactly.

which is that my children won’t kiss his arse for monetary gifts and he cant hold them to ransom. Also that he needs to bloody well grow up.

Right. So your 11 year old is rude to and upsets her grandad, and you characterise his expectation that this doesn’t happen as an expectation of having his arse kissed? Interesting.

@AStudyinPink you said he doesn't need to accept the apology? My reply was in relation to that and seems pretty clear to me.

I’m on the fence and without the details it’s hard to know what to think. Also without being there and not seeing the context....was it rude or more a bit silly and thoughtless.

While I agree anyone including grandparents have the right to withdraw funding for whatever....why should they give money/stuff to someone who is rude? I also dislike the thought of a well off grandparent using money to try and control and punish people.

I may be reading far too much into it and it may not be the case. My grandmother behaved like this. Was always telling everyone “if you do x I’ll remember you in my will”. If you were in favour she was financially generous while alive, if she took a perceived slight she wasn’t.

My mum tried the same behaviour with me and I wouldn’t play the game at all. A decision which cost me hundreds of thousands of pounds but I still say it was the right/best decision. I wasn’t prepared to be controlled for money.

I meant to say it does sound like the grandparents have blown it out of proportion.

you said he doesn't need to accept the apology? My reply was in relation to that and seems pretty clear to me.

Well he doesn’t. But as I’ve said above, I do think he would be unreasonable not to accept a genuine apology, given a chance to calm down. But we don’t know if he’s had one, and the expectation here seems to be that he should just ignore his own feelings and forgive the 11 year old straight away, or better yet not get annoyed to begin with. And that just isn’t how it works. If you’re rude and thoughtless it sometimes takes a while to repair it.

@SylviaPlath1984

There's a real split in opinion here isn't there!

People who want to raise decent kids who don't go around offending whom ever they please without consequence...

And those who's children are so precious and mollycoddled that they are aghast someone might punish them for bad behaviour!

To think we sometimes wonder why each generation is less respectful and more of a handful... wonder if it's anything to do with the parenting!!!!

No, I think it’s people who have experience of manipulating, abusive parents and people who don’t.

Consider yourself fortunate if your parents would only be offended in reasonable circumstances and only react proportionately.

Ask them directly why he is penalising child A when this child had nothing to do with the jokes?

From what I understand the grandfather is annoyed with them all and has withdrawn from them all. He’s usually mild tempered but when he gets angry he can overreact. She’s letting him calm down for a week or two. She suspects he enjoys all the apologies, drama and texts and doesn’t want to play into that. B has never been cruel so was definitely being thoughtless but she apologised immediately and is contrite. Friend doesn’t want B to get too upset so it’s very much business as usual and minimising it.

Difficult to say without full information, but normally I'm all for consequences and would say it's GF's place to decide what to do with his money (and B's place to apologise properly)

That said it's harder to understand why A's being punished too, and if it's something important for the kids I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with GF enjoying quite so much power

I have to say, though, OP, for this “patriarchal” “head of the family” grandad, B was surprisingly confident about winding him up, wasn’t she? I wouldn’t have dared mock my grandad, who was lovely, because my mother would have roasted me alive.

Why didn’t somebody stop her when she started on joke number two by saying, right, I don’t think your first joke was very funny and it was a bit rude so we don’t need any more, instead of letting her go on and dig a big hole for herself? That way she would learn she’d crossed a line and all this hoo-ha could have been avoided.

Its sounds like the friend is very used to her father and how he reacts which means I agree with dancingwithdreams this is very much about manipulative (grand)parents

He’s usually mild tempered but when he gets angry he can overreact ... She suspects he enjoys all the apologies, drama and texts and doesn’t want to play into that

I can't say I blame her; without knowing the details, this is what I meant about power and its possible misuse

Is there any way whatever-it-is can be funded without the GF's involvement?

Grandfather’s behaviour is very odd and not at all how I’d expect a loving grandparent to react. I made the odd naughty joke to my grandparents and they’d do what grandparents are supposed to do - laugh along with me, tell me I’m a scamp and they’ll tell my mum if I do it again. Not randomly punish the whole family!

He has shown his love is conditional, which is horrible for the children to realise. Obviously if she told him to F off or something he would be within his rights to end the call and tell the mum how upset he was, but having a tantrum because an 11 year old has teased you is incredibly immature and not the act of a loving, secure grandparent who should be setting a good example.

I feel sorry for B as I can see I do this sort of thing. I have alienated so many people over the years. I have only to let myself be happy in company and I will take it a step too far.
It is alright saying to watch what I say but the only way I can do that is to never ever relax when in company.

He’s usually mild tempered but when he gets angry he can overreact. She’s letting him calm down for a week or two. She suspects he enjoys all the apologies, drama and texts and doesn’t want to play into that

It is when B understands what is going on that the major damage is done.
I know I have seen this before when someone laps up the attention over something I have said and continues to feel overly hurt.
As you can’t do anything else the only way to move forward is to cut them out.

I think it must be hard for B having to live up to her perfect brothers life.
I can’t see long term this ending well.

I do think there is something a bit off with an older man not taking an apology from a young girl and then giving a punishment that also punishes her brother so her brother also will punish her as well

Something just doesn’t sit right with me.

I made the odd naughty joke to my grandparents and they’d do what grandparents are supposed to do - laugh along with me, tell me I’m a scamp and they’ll tell my mum if I do it again.

Which is what I would expect about a “naughty joke”. But we don’t know what was said here.

I do think there is something a bit off with an older man not taking an apology from a young girl and then giving a punishment that also punishes her brother so her brother also will punish her as well

What are you implying?

[quote TheGoodEnoughWife]@SecretSpAD a lot of projection from you there. 'Probably a nice set of grandparents'?

Anyone who refuses to accept a well meaning apology from an 11 yr old is not nice. She is 11! 11yr olds do silly things.
And this same person is punishing A when they have done absolutely nothing wrong. Nice eh? [/quote]
🙄

I do feel for A if he’s very sensible and being punished for his sister’s actions.

Why didn’t the parent intervene after the first off colour joke though? Not just sit open mouthed.

I think the parent should put an end to grandad proving whatever this thing is so if can’t be withheld unfairly in future.

B has learned an important lesson here. Don't make insulting comments and pretend it's "cheeky jokes". And don't get upset when your rude 'jokes' are not well received.

Yes, because then B will learn that the "you don't have a sense of humour, it's all bantz, innit" is not a legitimate defence for offensive comments.

The GP sounds like a bit of an arse, but again since child A seems to understand what's going on, and accept it, i am guessing there's a lot more going on.

Let’s say grandfather has a huge nose and B made three jokes about noses in a row. Everyone else sat there open mouthed including A. Grandfather then started on anout respecting your elders and so forth quite forcefully. Then B hung up because she was hurt. Later that day the grandparents decided to remove a certain privilege that they had been paying for. A wasn’t involved at all, was pretty annoyed with B and now has been punished as well. Grandparents are furious and sticking to their decision

So one child made some very rude personal remarks to grandpa, nobody intervened even after the 2nd joke so he told her off, then child rudely hung up!

I’m not surprised he’s withdrawn some sort of treat after that behaviour. If it effects the sibling it’s a lesson to both of them; rude child will learnt her actions have consequences for siblings as well as her, other child will learn to rein in the younger when she starts being rude to people.