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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Punishing the wrong person aibu

534 replies

Createsuser · 13/02/2021 07:09

So this is for a friend but it’s lockdown and there’s not much else to do.

DF has two DC’s A- sensible, mature and B- impulsive funny and cheeky. She comes from quite a traditional family who are fairly strict. During a recent family Zoom call with the grandparents B made some off colour jokes then when the grandfather gave her a firm telling off hung up on him. The grandfather has now issued some punishments (don’t want to say what as it would be outing) to A and B. A wasn’t involved and told B off for being a fool and said she should have known the grandparents would be upset. So in essence A is now being punished for B’s behaviour which he didn’t agree with. The grandparents won’t listen to A’s side of the story. WWYD and Aibu to think this is unfair?

OP posts:
lemmein · 13/02/2021 12:43

I haven't RTT but wanted to ask, how is your DF relationship with her dad? Do they normally get on? If this happened in my family I would know that whatever was said had genuinely hurt my dad because he's such a laid back, lovely man - for him to react so strongly would indicate he was really upset by it and I would try my best to sort it out and make sure my daughter knew she was wrong and push her to make amends with her grandad.

But, if he's normally a prick and has blown it out of proportion I'd leave him to get on with it - he can be head of his smaller family!

Disfordarkchocolate · 13/02/2021 12:46

I'd be bloody annoyed at the Grandparents much more than child B.

The Grandfather is not the head of the family. I'd be furious if my parents acted like they were.

There are many ways to let a child know that they have stepped over a line, being furious and punative isn't one of them.

If I was the parent I'd be paying for whatever has been removed myself and not letting the grandparents pay for things again. The reality is an 11 year old at an age where they are learning a new role in the family, a few misteps along the way is to expected. As a mother I would have talked to my child and explained the jokes went to far and then told my Dad he was as wrong. Head of the family my arse!

BlackBrowedAlbatross · 13/02/2021 12:52

*A couple of very important things to learn about apologies:

  • even if you mean them, the other person is under no obligation to accept them*

An adult who can't or won't accept an apology from an 11 year old and refuses to speak to them is a twat tho right?

AStudyinPink · 13/02/2021 12:57

An adult who can't or won't accept an apology from an 11 year old and refuses to speak to them is a twat tho right?

Maybe. I still want to know what the 11 said and how the apology went.

BlackBrowedAlbatross · 13/02/2021 13:01

I still want to know what the 11 said

Why's that, what difference does it make? Do you think there's something she could have said that would warrant never being forgiven by her own grandfather? At 11?

QueenoftheAir · 13/02/2021 13:01

However, if B has form for being insensitive and rude, then it probably serves her right - but it isn't fair for A to be tarred with the same brush.

This. Child B probably needs to be gently led to reflecting on her "cheekiness."

It has the potential to turn into bullying of a kind "Oh can't you take a joke?" is a typical adult bully's tactic.

PS. For avoidance of doubt I am neither saying nor wishing to imply that Child B is a bully.

AStudyinPink · 13/02/2021 13:04

Why's that, what difference does it make? Do you think there's something she could have said that would warrant never being forgiven by her own grandfather? At 11?

That’s not a reasonable interpretation of what I said. If the insult was more serious and the apology poor, well, maybe he isn’t going to accept a non-apology.

Whattodo1610 · 13/02/2021 13:04

astudy ... the child apologised .., she was clearly upset herself, probably confused also. I’d be horrified if someone treated my child in this way. There’s a difference between maliciously being rude and nasty to the GF and a genuine accidental inappropriate comment, showing/singing something she found funny that probably all her mates were singing also. Even so, the child apologised. I honestly can’t imagine any grown adult treating a child in this way. I really can’t.

Fuckingcrustybread · 13/02/2021 13:07

Child B makes 3 rude remarks, Grandparent gives a firm telling off, child B hangs up and cuts the family zoom call. Child B really doesn't like being told off does she?
I would go with the opinion that Child B isn't cheeky, impulsive and funny. I think Child B is a rude entitled brat and her mother is unable to see that.
The Grandparent is quite within his rights to withdraw the treat from Child B but he's completely unreasonable to withdraw the treat from Child A and he's being very unfair and harsh on Child A
I blame the parents for not immediately stopping Child B after the first Joke.

AStudyinPink · 13/02/2021 13:08

... the child apologised .., she was clearly upset herself, probably confused also.

You seem to know much more about this situation than the OP has actually revealed. All I have said is that I can’t judge how reasonable the GF is being without more detail. And I can’t.

BlackBrowedAlbatross · 13/02/2021 13:09

@AStudyinPink

Why's that, what difference does it make? Do you think there's something she could have said that would warrant never being forgiven by her own grandfather? At 11?

That’s not a reasonable interpretation of what I said. If the insult was more serious and the apology poor, well, maybe he isn’t going to accept a non-apology.

This is to do with the quality of the apology though. You do seem to be implying that there is a scale of 'badness' and where the remark sits on the scale has some bearing on whether she is forgiven or not. Which suggests that there are things she could have said that he would be justified in never forgiving her for.
mcmooberry · 13/02/2021 13:09

Seems like B didn't read her audience in time and didn't think. All sounds very harsh and unpleasant if she is usually the family joker and this time didn't expect that reaction (and also hadn't thought enough to realise how her grandfather might feel)
Does your friend feel her father has gone too far with this or does she feel that B deserves all she gets? How along ago did this happen? Might he calm down?

I don't like the idea of him withdrawing financial support for something based on this. Shouting at his GD was enough of a punishment I would think.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 13/02/2021 13:12

It is unfair to punish both when only one did wrong. But it seems grandpa is cross with whole family so he should speak to his own son / daughter to discuss.

Gitfeatures · 13/02/2021 13:13

When did B apologise - before or after the removal of the 'privilege?'

AStudyinPink · 13/02/2021 13:13

This is to do with the quality of the apology though. You do seem to be implying that there is a scale of 'badness' and where the remark sits on the scale has some bearing on whether she is forgiven or not. Which suggests that there are things she could have said that he would be justified in never forgiving her for.

I don’t think I am, no. I think it would be very unreasonable in virtually all circumstances I can think of to permanently cut off an 11 year old. As far as I can see, that hasn’t happened yet. He just hasn’t accepted the initial apology and is still angry. Well, that happens.

TatianaBis · 13/02/2021 13:15

GF is a massive patriarchal twat.

It doesn’t really matter what 11 year old did, it doesn’t sound like the offence taken was intended, and I’m not surprised she hung up when being shouted at by an adult. A bit of immaturity is excusable at 11, but not as an adult.

Me, I would get the whole thing under control by telling DF he was well out of order and behaving like a child. That if he is so immature and capricious with money and punishments, then he can’t be trusted with any monetary gifts to the children - I’d cancel all of them.

It simply doesn’t work to be under the thumb of a personality like this.

They need to get free of him or there will be ongoing nonsense like this.

TatianaBis · 13/02/2021 13:16

If was the parent I'd be paying for whatever has been removed myself and not letting the grandparents pay for things again. The reality is an 11 year old at an age where they are learning a new role in the family, a few misteps along the way is to expected. As a mother I would have talked to my child and explained the jokes went to far and then told my Dad he was as wrong. Head of the family my arse

Agreed.

sneakysnoopysniper · 13/02/2021 13:21

Grandparents can decide how to dispose of their own money and property. My parents always made it clear that they preferred their pretty younger daughter (my sister). However my grandma took a real fancy to me (the plain gawky one) and was never as fond of my sister. She helped me in numerous ways when I was growing up with both practical advice and sometimes financial support.

My sister was never particularly close to my gran but I used to visit her at least once a week, even though my parents disapproved of so many visits. When my sister became a single parent (1960s so very different attitudes then) grandma said she had disgraced the family. She completely cut her out of her will and left property to myself and 2 other grandchildren but without even mentioning my sister. She also left me the entire contents of her house.

It could be argued that gran was unfairly punishing my sister because she became pregnant at 16. My gran was very traditional and thats the way it goes in some families.

If gran has shut me out of her life because of what my sister did I would have gone to her and said "Look dont punish me because of what my sister did. Im a different person and not responsible for her mistakes."

I think A should approach her grandfather in this way.

ddl1 · 13/02/2021 13:22

It is hard to come to a conclusion without knowing more both about the punishment, and the behaviour being punished.

If the punishment involves depriving the children of some joint activity, then it's a little more understandable that A would be included in the deprivation. Allowing only A to do it while excluding B would make B's punishment worse, and perhaps have a negative impact on the relationship between A and B.

If it involves refusing to pay for something (presumably some extracurricular activity) that the two are both doing but not jointly, then it indeed seems unfair to A to deprive both of them of it.

It also depends very much on the nature of the offense, and, in particular, whether B was deliberately making fun of the grandfather, or was just repeating jokes that she'd heard, without much thought. And in the latter case, how obviously related to the grandfather's situation it was - to what extent could B have been expected to know that the grandfather might be sensitive about it?

It might serve as a lesson to B to 'think before you open your mouth', and that if you don't, you may not only get yourself into trouble, but others as well. However, it also sounds as though the grandfather is a bit overly status-conscious; and may be not only offended by the particular jokes, but invested in 'showing who's boss'.

Obviously, there isn't anything the OP can do about it, and it may be necessary to tread carefully, especially if as sounds possible, different cultural backgrounds are involved. And lockdown is likely to be making all family misunderstandings worse. I hope things are eventually sorted out!

SecretSpAD · 13/02/2021 13:29

Whatever it is this is a sick example of an older man telling a young girl what she can and cannot do as he provides the money (I am guessing ) . Do as I want or you get excluded . It makes me heave !

It would have indeed been sick - if thst was what happened. I think there's a lot of projection on this thread, probably due to the OP daring to mention that this man saw himself as head of a family - which was, I imagine, done very deliberately to present a certain image of this man.

The truth is this is probably a very nice, generous set of grandparents who have sat back for a long time and put up with rudeness from this child and also her parents apparent indulgence of it.

There is nothing wrong with deciding enough is enough and that you are not going to pander to someone's bad behaviour anymore, especially when it causes a lot of hurt. After all isn't that what a million daughters in law are advised to do on here everyday?

Blibbyblobby · 13/02/2021 13:33

B has learned an important lesson here. Don't make insulting comments and pretend it's "cheeky jokes". And don't get upset when your rude 'jokes' are not well received.

More likely to learn to suck up to the money.

TheGoodEnoughWife · 13/02/2021 13:34

@SecretSpAD a lot of projection from you there. 'Probably a nice set of grandparents'?

Anyone who refuses to accept a well meaning apology from an 11 yr old is not nice. She is 11! 11yr olds do silly things.
And this same person is punishing A when they have done absolutely nothing wrong. Nice eh?

Summersun2020 · 13/02/2021 13:34

GF sounds like a thin skinned, pathetic man baby. Refusing an apology from an 11 year old- I would put him right in his place.

AStudyinPink · 13/02/2021 13:35

Refusing an apology from an 11 year old- I would put him right in his place.

Which is what? He doesn’t have to accept apologies, does he?

Summersun2020 · 13/02/2021 13:37

@AStudyinPink which is that my children won’t kiss his arse for monetary gifts and he cant hold them to ransom. Also that he needs to bloody well grow up.