Punishing the wrong person aibu

[Createsuser]

So this is for a friend but it’s lockdown and there’s not much else to do.

DF has two DC’s A- sensible, mature and B- impulsive funny and cheeky. She comes from quite a traditional family who are fairly strict. During a recent family Zoom call with the grandparents B made some off colour jokes then when the grandfather gave her a firm telling off hung up on him. The grandfather has now issued some punishments (don’t want to say what as it would be outing) to A and B. A wasn’t involved and told B off for being a fool and said she should have known the grandparents would be upset. So in essence A is now being punished for B’s behaviour which he didn’t agree with. The grandparents won’t listen to A’s side of the story. WWYD and Aibu to think this is unfair?

B meant no harm and has of course apologised but Grandfather won’t forgive her.

Regardless of what the child said or the context of what happened, the grandfather has set up a situation where there can be no winners. One child has been punished for something they didn't so and one child has apologised for a misjudged comment and been told that they will not be forgiven.

If the grandfather offers his 'generosity' in order to have additional leverage among the children in his family, then he is awful.

If he is really hurt by the actions of the youngest, then he should at least acknowledge the apology and either open the lines of communication or make it clear what he feels would rectify the situation (e.g a conversation about the incident and a promise to be more considerate in future).

I can't really see what the 'punished' parties are supposed to do in this situation, but if the grandfather is refusing even to speak to the parents, then there's nothing they can do but let him stew in his own juices. It sounds like he would be missing out more than the kids.

Even if he does reinstate this mysterious 'privilege' it sounds like they
won't ever be able to enjoy it fully again, knowing that they are only one mistake away from being 'cut off' and having to live without it again.

@SnuggyBuggy

Is A also the butt of Bs jokes?

Also wondering this, A probably sick of the 'B is just wonderful with their cheeky fun humour'. Is all their humour at someone else's expense?

But it really doesn't matter if B is a bit spirited / cheeky or a complete little shit - the whole point of punishing both A and B is the hope that A will be angry at B and then B will be punished by not just losing the gift, but also have A angry at her/hoping A will police Bs behaviour in the future.

Its continuing the idea that the men of the family control the woman.

Its so shitty and OP your friend must be clear on that. A cant be left with the idea its ok.

Your friend needs to step in. 11yr olds can be thoughtless and rude but they need to be forgiven.

If they have apologised, and it would seem they have then everyone needs to move on.

As the parent your friend needs to contact the grandparents and say B has apologised and A did nothing wrong. That they need to be forgiven. Then leave it up to them. It seems they want grovelling and that is not okay. People make mistakes.

I would stop dancing the their tune until such time they can grow up (the grandparents not A & B!)

B is 11 years old and old enough to know better. However if grandparents take it upon themselves to offer up an activity towards children it should come with a no strings attached clause. It is petty for them to withdraw it but fair enough is done now. I would not, if I were either parent take them up on any more offers and support all my children's wants and needs myself. If I couldn't, then they wouldn't get them. A life lesson for B although harsh.

A lot of people here going off on one about the grandad.

In my experience ‘cheeky’ children are generally actually rude little shits who have no boundaries.

The parents let their child insult their grandfather 3 times!! 3 times while they say in ‘shocked silence’

This to me seems like maybe gf has gone over the top removing the Punic hammer because he’s sick of having to put up with rudeness from the child and knows the parents are doing zero about it.

If B is usually ‘cheeky’ then how was the apology!? ‘Sorry I forgot you had a big nose when I made the big nose jokes grandad’ or ‘sorry I hurt your feeling grandad I won’t do it again, it’s ok to not give me the treat but I hope you won’t be mad at me anymore’

Also the post where op says ‘A won’t say anything bad about the gf’ sounds like the family have been trying to pull A into slagging off his grandad and he doesn’t want to as he likes him. It’s sad A is also being punished though but it also sounds like the gift of something like Disney + in which case the gf has to remove it from the household.

Again this paints a different picture - if it’s not that he’s actually removing it from A just that it’s impossible to remove it from B without also removing it from A.

Bit of a leap there @MargosKaftan

The grandfather is humiliated basically. He takes his role as head of the family seriously

He can’t be seriously thinking he is head of the family. That ship sailed in the 1950s
Anyone who thinks they are head of the family needs to be ignored.

Is he hoping to drive a wedge between A and B to alienate B even further?
How is this supposed to work out in the future.
If B is being ignored and he won’t accept her apology and he is punishing A as well then will your friend be visiting with her children again or is that it for the relationship.

Apologies for using * - I didn’t mean to swear. Just having seen my parents for nearly a year as they don’t do zoom and feel ☹️ sad about family break ups

Context is everything I’m afraid.
There was a collective silence. So what had been said and why did a parent not step in and rebuke the child.
The child continued then at being told off hung up on GF. Children should not be hanging up after being rebuked for bad behaviour.
Withdrawal of financial benefits yes it’s controlling but without knowing what it is, how long for, is it time limited or permanently etc.

Really you can’t judge the level of unreasonableness without knowing the other factors. My only view being why punish the other child as well who was not involved in the rudeness.

Nope - the whole point of collective punishments is to make the others punished to take responsibility for ensuring the badly behaved person corrects their behaviour.

Its making A not just responsible for his behaviour, but also his sisters behaviour. And therefore teach A to keep an eye on not just what he does, but what his sister does.

Its always a shitty thing to do.

A doesn’t come out of this looking good either. I would worry he will grow up to be like his grandfather and think he too can manipulate and throw his weight around in any sort of relationship

I have s friend who thinks her daughter is a cute, cheeky one, and I think she's just arrogant and rude

This reminds me of a mum at school who’s always looking at her daughter admiringly, saying things like “oh, I’m loving her sass”. In my opinion, the child is shockingly rude - and often in inappropriate situations (eg to teachers). It’s hard to know in this situation whether B offered up a bit of well meaning cheek (eg “Ooh, don’t let Grandpa drive - he might crash the car like he did the boat”) or whether she was actually insulting and rude (eg “God, Grandpa must be losing his marbles - he crashed his boat, the silly old fool”). And there’s often a fine line between the two. (In fairness, kids of 11 often need to be helped with navigating that line - but it does depend on what she said.)

Is he hoping to drive a wedge between A and B to alienate B even further?
How is B being alienated? According to op everyone loves their 'much needed cheeky humour'

I think the grandfather is in danger of doing long term damage to his relationship with A unfortunately. You reap what you sow in that sense. Why would child A want anything to do with someone who is going to randomly punish them for something they weren't involved in?

@MargosKaftan

Nope - the whole point of collective punishments is to make the others punished to take responsibility for ensuring the badly behaved person corrects their behaviour.

Its making A not just responsible for his behaviour, but also his sisters behaviour. And therefore teach A to keep an eye on not just what he does, but what his sister does.

Its always a shitty thing to do.

Or maybe the gift is Disney plus and it’s impossible to remove it from B without removing it from A as they share a household....

There was a collective silence. So what had been said and why did a parent not step in and rebuke the child

This, absolutely.

*A lot of people here going off on one about the grandad.

In my experience ‘cheeky’ children are generally actually rude little shits who have no boundaries.

The parents let their child insult their grandfather 3 times!! 3 times while they say in ‘shocked silence’

This to me seems like maybe gf has gone over the top removing the Punic hammer because he’s sick of having to put up with rudeness from the child and knows the parents are doing zero about it*

^This! I suspect the GF was originally upset about the rudeness of the child, but is now really upset that the parent didn’t step in and stop them, and is not handling it very well / minimising. The rude child I could forgive if they’d apologised; the dismissive parent I could not. I’d also be withdrawing my gift whatever it is - and that would be more about being upset with the behaviour of the family as a whole and not just the “cheeky” child.

And it’s not about gifts having string attached or being ways to control. It’s about not having your kindness or generosity thrown back in your face with bad behaviour.

A needs to buy a card and write a heartfelt apology and say it didn't come from a place of malice, she would never of deliberately hurt his feelings and she is terribly sorry. She could also say that B has read her the riot act and even if they continue punishing her (which she completely understands) could they perhaps think twice about punishing B.

It could probably all have been avoided if she didn't cut him of but had of apologised at the time.

astudy
I’m sure they won’t lose contact. Why would they?

Well they're refusing to speak to the children. The longer it goes on along with the refusal to provide whatever it is - then will the grandchildren really make an effort? How long are the grandparents planning to refuse contact?

astudy ... my use of the term bank roll was a plain easy term to use, not meaning to exaggerate things. It was easier than writing out ‘whatever GF pays for’ each time 😂

@rainbowstardrops
I'm confused. If what the 11 year old was 'joking' about was so bad, why didn't the actual parents stop them before it got to the point of GF shouting???

Because they think that its "cheeky" and not "rude"

The fact the child is only 11 and has apologised but GF is refusing to accept the apology, makes GF sound more childish than the 11 year old!

but as with the part I haven't quoted we "randoms" don't know enough to know how often this happens.

I wouldn't be surprised if the granddaughter doesn't want any part of any more Zoom calls to be honest.

Probably the same for the GPs, plus why hasn't the DD been told off for ending a family zoom?

I think the parents need to sort their children's behaviour out and telling GF to bloody grow up!

Yes to the first, we don't know enough about the second.

My God how do people live with such a lot of unnecessary drama in their lives?
Whatever happened to common sense?
'Oi 'B' knock of the nose/yacht jokes, you're being a bit rude, you know better than that don't you? Now what have you been getting up to in the last week - how's the home schooling going, won't it be great when we can all meet up again ?'

I mean seriously '11 year old makes ill thought out cheeky remark' it's not quite in the same league as 'pandemic sends entire world into lockdown'

I wonder if the Grip shops are still open? Maybe Grandad can get one online.

So 11 year old children can’t make mistakes? And when they do, and they apologise, that’s not good enough?

MichelleScarn
SnuggyBuggy

Is A also the butt of Bs jokes?

Also wondering this, A probably sick of the 'B is just wonderful with their cheeky fun humour'. Is all their humour at someone else's expense?

I suspect that there is a huge grain of truth about this.