To tell you all how much of a crock of shite sleep training is...

[Butusernamessuck]

And how unreasonable it is to propagate that utter torrid hell onto tired and desperate parents.

2 hours into what is labled as "gentle sleep training" with my ebf Velcro baby and my entire family will never be the same.

The baby in question is distraught despite constant physical and verbal reassurance from me. He's vomited all over himself, me, his cot and my bed. 35 minutes after giving up he is still shaking and sobbing (and dry heaving) in between frantic breastfeeds. Hes scratched his face to the point of bleeding and cried himself hoarse.

I was present the whole time. Shhhhing, patting and stroking as per the "suffle" method. Picking up and soothing and putting back down with a kiss and reassurance. He just screamed. And screamed. And screamed.

At the 2 hour mark he threw up and choked on it. Thats when I gave up.

Not, however before deeply traumatising my baby, myself and all my other kids.

He obviously woke them all up. The 5 year old has fallen asleep crying in my bed, the 11 year old stormed off back to bed with headphones after telling me he thinks sleep training is abusive and the 9 year old sat outside my room, shaking the whole time. Once I gave up and begun cleaning up the vomit he asked me if I did that to him as a baby. I told him no, this baby is the only one I've had as a single parent and as a result of the disrupted 3 or 4 hours a night I am really struggling. I tried this out of utter desperation because I had read on here that although it may be a bit hard going, it really works and is torally harmless.

9 year old just sighed and said he doesn't think the baby will forgive me as he couldn't if i did that to him. Hes not sure he can forgive me for doing it to the baby, apparently he didn't think he had a mean mum.

So. My review of sleep training someone who simply cannot rationalise what's happening.. Snake oil bull shit that ruins lives.

If it worked for you whoopie friggin do .. You lucked out .. Implying to parents on their knees with exhaustion that it is a one stop cure all for naughty babies manipulating love and affection is barbaric

Hes finally asleep .. Still making sobbing noises .. Or maybe that's just one of the other kids. Or me.

Sorry OP you have had such a hard time. I think from going from co-sleeping to independently falling asleep in cot was probably a jump to far.

Perhaps just work on getting your baby to spend the first part of the night in the cot (feeding to sleep if that's normal then transfer, pick up to cuddle etc if wake.) Then work on spending longer in the cot - still responding with food cuddles when wakes and then you can start thinking about working on falling asleep independently and self settling.

I think my muk feels like she comes round So We can muddle through together and I appreciate the gesture but I'm only muddling through because I'm tired hah!

I don't know who said that I had abandonned common sense when stepping away from my instinctual parenting methods but you're 100% correct.

I utterly threw reason out of the window when I decided a baby that has been top side less than a year could realise all he had to do was forsake all normal methods for falling asleep feeling safe and loved and secure and work out how to do it alone.

Who would ever think that is a good idea.

Dont worry I'm suffering some suitsble backlash from the 5 year old. Who is over tired and pushing all the boundaries in response to being exposed to last nights horror show.

As for having a parenting committee. That mafe me chuckle a fair bit.

The older two really have stepped up and helped out in ways far beyond their years since the splitting of their family and arrival of a baby. I have been enprmously grateful for the endless games of hide and seek the 11 year old has played with the bored 5 year old during growth spurt sessions. I've had boundless appreciation for him learning how to make me a coffee, for the 9 year old taking over with occasional nursery rhyme sessions with the baby so I could have some food or fold nappies, for the 5 year old surrendering his baby ofnthe house status with minimal fuss and much love for the new one.

Tell me how can I accept all of the above and yet admonish them or ban their opinions on the less fluffy days??

Just read your update and feel a bit guilty about my above grumpy post. I’m sorry you’re having a tough time.

You didn't sound at all aggressive and judgemental to me OP. You just sound knackered and actually quite lovely from the way your older DC reacted to your night of desperation.

I am honestly and without any hint of angry sarcasm, sorry if ive come across as aggressive or unpleasent - I'm not at my best and I appreciate I could probably mince my words better.

As well as releasing the feelings somewhere safe I just wanted to point out that for those of us for whom it doesn't work the posts or replies highlighting how it worked easily for some, or they did it different and it worked so thus.. Better.. Or the posts telling distraught parents that if their baby was very distressed they failed or misunderstood the method.. Are like salt in wounds and far from helpful.

I know having a non sleeping baby sucks. I had two. Attempted to sleep train both. It worked ok one. It definitely did not on the other.

It was worth a shot and perhaps consider trying again in a couple of months. Hope you have a better day today. I had three years of terrible sleep (two babies twenty months apart) and another two of bad sleep. But things are good now (apart from the pandemic, obv)

What I meant to say it it WILL end, whether or not you do let them cry it out or not

OP YABU for beating yourself up about this. Lack of sleep is soul destroying. Give yourself a break and treat yourself to more gin/wine/cake/chocolate (delete as appropriate).

Apologies if this isn’t possible or you’ve already discounted it, but both mine only started to sleep better when they went into their own room. For DC1 that was at 7 months, then we saw gradual improvement over the next 3 months or so. I also stopped BF around then but to be honest I think that was a coincidence as they were very happy with bottles over those 3 months.

DC2 was 11 months when we moved them, for practical reasons as we just didn’t have the space to do it sooner. Almost overnight improvement from waking every 2 hours from 11pm to waking just once. And from about 13 months it’s been 50:50 one wake up or sleeping through.

It was almost like if they stirred and sensed I was close by they wanted cuddles (and milk) but if I wasn’t there they usually went back to sleep.

If you have the space to it might be worth a try?

This has been my exact thoughts but we're in a 3 story 3 bed terraced house with my room at the very top and the other two rooms on the middle floor. He would have to go in with one or two siblings and I'm hesitant to be disturbing them with him especially after last night :/

@hibbledibble

Yabu. It worked for me. But I didn't do it like you did. Babies didn't get distressed or vomit.

And I’ve tried to ignore this comment but oh my god @hibbledibble you really do come across as an unpleasant person.

Oh lord. You poor thing. Your children sound brilliant so you're obviously doing tons right I left DS to cry one night for my own sanity - he spent about an hour crying himself to sleep and it was horrible. Muddling through is all any of us can do, especially right now.

I hope you're going to have a day of being kind to yourselves today. Bin off housework, unlimited screen time, nap if you can, favourite foods and lots of cuddling. You've all earned it.

Im trying very hard to ignore the mean comments ans those that have deliberately ignored the point od my post to come and literally say these kind of things.
Trust me comments like yours and the support outweigh the meaness by a wide margin and make suffering the unpleasent worth it.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan

Oh lord. You poor thing. Your children sound brilliant so you're obviously doing tons right I left DS to cry one night for my own sanity - he spent about an hour crying himself to sleep and it was horrible. Muddling through is all any of us can do, especially right now.

I hope you're going to have a day of being kind to yourselves today. Bin off housework, unlimited screen time, nap if you can, favourite foods and lots of cuddling. You've all earned it.

Currently on the sofa with baby and alexa playing nursery rhymes while the big ones sre upstairs den building .. Not much plans for anything else.

@Butusernamessuck

This has been my exact thoughts but we're in a 3 story 3 bed terraced house with my room at the very top and the other two rooms on the middle floor. He would have to go in with one or two siblings and I'm hesitant to be disturbing them with him especially after last night :/

How about putting one of the older ones in with you for a few nights and putting the baby in their room, just to see how it goes? Maybe leave it for a few nights first so the other kids have caught up on their sleep from last night and then give it a go?

Your little one sounds like my DS, once he gets going with his tears there’s absolutely no stopping him until he’s comforted, some babies are dead good at self soothing, some really aren’t.

Please please don’t punish yourself, these little night owls are just like adults and a lot of these stupid bloody baby books seem to blanket babies and forget that they have completely individual traits and have their own personalities

You’re doing a fab job

Den building is a perfectly productive day for kids!

I encouraged indoor dens a lot in lockdown 1 when DC1 was off nursery and DC2 was a newborn. DC1 loved them. Even ate lunch in there for a few days which I was more than happy to go with!

Could also be a good day for an indoor picnic?

Not much plans for anything else. YABU - You do need to be doing some pretty serious food planning too, unless you're one of those weird families that doesn't spend every waking hour obsessing about what you're going to eat next. Pizza, curry, Chinese?

And just to echo what others are saying. Your baby won't remember a thing of this and it won't have harmed him in the slightest. You were there with him the whole time and he was never frightened.

YABU OP. It depends on the child, and whether you get a sleep plan from a proper consultant, as opposed to just reading about it and trying it yourself. Really sorry to hear about your baby though, that must have been so distressing. The key is to keep your voice and actions calm, don’t talk in a voice that implies “you’re sorry and that being put down is horrible isn’t it” else that’ll just reinforce to the baby that being put down isn’t nice. If your baby is being sick etc I’d want to check there’s nothing else going on.

We got a sleep plan from a consultant and sleep trained at 7 months. We did gentle controlled crying, so going back in to reassure but not pick up- briefly at 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 min intervals (only up to 4 mins on night 1, then 5 mins on night 2). It worked in three nights and DS has slept through since then, aside from the odd nights of teething etc. My DS was never throwing up with it or anything though.

I had to do it to save my sanity and marriage. It was a life saver and I’d recommend it to anyone. If this plan hasn’t worked I’d recommend trying another. But you do have to follow it to the letter.

DM me if you want the name of the consultant we used.

I only tried for one night, my baby was shaking vomiting and hysterical. I don’t care how tired I am I couldn’t inflict that on my baby.

It was awful and I’m totally with you. I’m concerned for people who said it worked you’ve just got to carry on, how can you sit through that doing minimal efforts to comfort your baby, it’s absurd.

As a side note: I stopped bfing my baby at night he’s 8 months and we’re 2 weeks in he’s done two full nights sleep and now only wakes for small cuddle or dummy maybe once/twice a night. Win in my book.

Co-sleep and night wean instead?

I just remember patting mine in the cot at that age and the patting and shushing doing nothing at all.

I'll .speak to my eldest about trying this next weekend when we've all recovered - thank you again for your patient suggestions.

@bellver888

Your little one sounds like my DS, once he gets going with his tears there’s absolutely no stopping him until he’s comforted, some babies are dead good at self soothing, some really aren’t.

Please please don’t punish yourself, these little night owls are just like adults and a lot of these stupid bloody baby books seem to blanket babies and forget that they have completely individual traits and have their own personalities

You’re doing a fab job

Thank you, he is definitely his own person with a very defined personality already. Stubborn and very confident in what he wants. On reflection I have no idea what I was thinking hah!

@JaneNorman

Den building is a perfectly productive day for kids!

I encouraged indoor dens a lot in lockdown 1 when DC1 was off nursery and DC2 was a newborn. DC1 loved them. Even ate lunch in there for a few days which I was more than happy to go with!

Could also be a good day for an indoor picnic?

They're asking to sleep in it .. I suspect sleep related boundaries are in for some nudging .. Wish me luck!!!

It must be hard on your own with 4 so no-one could fault you for trying. It just sounds like the method wasn’t right for you or your little one. I’ve always been quite strict with sleep but there will always be evenings when I end up cuddling mine or having them in bed. My normally excellent sleeper spent 3 hours one night last week crying and the only way to get her back to sleep was to have her in our bed. She just needed to be near one of us for what we reason.

Can you look at smaller steps that might get you towards more sleep like cutting out one night feed or moving from co-sleeping to sleeping in the cot in a really gradual way?

The only other thing I wondered reading your posts was whether the baby might have been a bit wired and overstimulated if you waited until your others had gone to bed. My youngest absolutely couldn’t cope past 7 unless they were in a darkened room and asleep. The thing we found worked for us with her was being really strict about awake times between naps.