To tell you all how much of a crock of shite sleep training is...

[Butusernamessuck]

And how unreasonable it is to propagate that utter torrid hell onto tired and desperate parents.

2 hours into what is labled as "gentle sleep training" with my ebf Velcro baby and my entire family will never be the same.

The baby in question is distraught despite constant physical and verbal reassurance from me. He's vomited all over himself, me, his cot and my bed. 35 minutes after giving up he is still shaking and sobbing (and dry heaving) in between frantic breastfeeds. Hes scratched his face to the point of bleeding and cried himself hoarse.

I was present the whole time. Shhhhing, patting and stroking as per the "suffle" method. Picking up and soothing and putting back down with a kiss and reassurance. He just screamed. And screamed. And screamed.

At the 2 hour mark he threw up and choked on it. Thats when I gave up.

Not, however before deeply traumatising my baby, myself and all my other kids.

He obviously woke them all up. The 5 year old has fallen asleep crying in my bed, the 11 year old stormed off back to bed with headphones after telling me he thinks sleep training is abusive and the 9 year old sat outside my room, shaking the whole time. Once I gave up and begun cleaning up the vomit he asked me if I did that to him as a baby. I told him no, this baby is the only one I've had as a single parent and as a result of the disrupted 3 or 4 hours a night I am really struggling. I tried this out of utter desperation because I had read on here that although it may be a bit hard going, it really works and is torally harmless.

9 year old just sighed and said he doesn't think the baby will forgive me as he couldn't if i did that to him. Hes not sure he can forgive me for doing it to the baby, apparently he didn't think he had a mean mum.

So. My review of sleep training someone who simply cannot rationalise what's happening.. Snake oil bull shit that ruins lives.

If it worked for you whoopie friggin do .. You lucked out .. Implying to parents on their knees with exhaustion that it is a one stop cure all for naughty babies manipulating love and affection is barbaric

Hes finally asleep .. Still making sobbing noises .. Or maybe that's just one of the other kids. Or me.

The book ‘your baby week by week’ which is written by a consultant paediatrician who works at great ormond street hospital also advises not to pick up your baby if they cry so much they vomit during sleep training. Just clean them up quickly with as little fuss and eye contact as possible and leave them to carry on screaming so as not to get their hopes up.

@Aria999

About the sids posts; the significant risk factors for sids are smoking, front sleeping and blankets etc in the crib. There's no conclusive evidence that room sharing makes any difference. I think it is weird and unhelpful that the nhs have this in their guidelines alongside stuff that actually matters.

The Lullaby Trust reckon the evidence says otherwise

@3WildOnes Aaand that was the point at which I threw that book in the bin. It also recommends weaning at 4 months, against NHS and WHO advice

@BeardyButton

Yup. Balance and a withholding judgment. How about.... that wouldn’t have/doesn’t work for us, but shur different families do different things. It’s like we are all frantically trying to justify our own ‘choices’ which were in fact less choices and more coping mechanisms by frowning upon anyone who does it differently.

Absolutely, loving the comments about balance. I didn't follow any set method really although it would probably be described as sleep training. Sometimes I would leave her to settle, sometimes I wouldn't, I could usually tell by what sort of noise she was making whether she was going to settle. I couldn't breastfeed because I had no supply after an ECS, I'm not a "formula mum", I don't subscribe to any method as a way of life, I just did what I could and what worked. It certainly seems that whatever your approach, people are prepared to judge you.

Totally agree with balance, to be honest though aren’t we all just winging it?

Behind closed doors when it’s just you/your baby/family you do what you think is best, nobody (hopefully) is going to actively choose to do something they think isn’t the best for them. That will be different for everyone.

One thing I’ve learned this last year as a new mum is: the world doesn’t cave in if you give a pouch because you’re tired. The sun doesn’t implode if you stop BFing and give formula. Your babies eyes don’t fall out if they see the TV on.

Just get through 🤷🏽‍♀️It’s a bloody pandemic too

@SinkGirl

This is the article they're referring to;

96 Carpenter RG, Irgens LM, Blair PS, England PD, Fleming P, Huber J, et al. Sudden
unexplained infant death in 20 regions in Europe: case control study. Lancet.
2004;363(9404):185-91.

It's one of the ones the AAP recommendation is based on. Oster discusses it in her book but argues that the results as regards room sharing are inconclusive. I haven't read the article itself.

My point was that the evidence on room sharing making a difference isn't very good but the evidence on the other risk factors is extremely strong, yet they all get lumped together in the recommendations.

Cosleep. You’ll get much more rest. I wish I could help you, OP. You’ll get through this x

OP I agree, sleep training is bollocks.

It sounds like you’re having a really tough time. Please don’t be hard on yourself. You did what you thought was best, lesson learnt and everyone can move on.

@Butusernamessuck

And how unreasonable it is to propagate that utter torrid hell onto tired and desperate parents.

2 hours into what is labled as "gentle sleep training" with my ebf Velcro baby and my entire family will never be the same.

The baby in question is distraught despite constant physical and verbal reassurance from me. He's vomited all over himself, me, his cot and my bed. 35 minutes after giving up he is still shaking and sobbing (and dry heaving) in between frantic breastfeeds. Hes scratched his face to the point of bleeding and cried himself hoarse.

I was present the whole time. Shhhhing, patting and stroking as per the "suffle" method. Picking up and soothing and putting back down with a kiss and reassurance. He just screamed. And screamed. And screamed.

At the 2 hour mark he threw up and choked on it. Thats when I gave up.

Not, however before deeply traumatising my baby, myself and all my other kids.

He obviously woke them all up. The 5 year old has fallen asleep crying in my bed, the 11 year old stormed off back to bed with headphones after telling me he thinks sleep training is abusive and the 9 year old sat outside my room, shaking the whole time. Once I gave up and begun cleaning up the vomit he asked me if I did that to him as a baby. I told him no, this baby is the only one I've had as a single parent and as a result of the disrupted 3 or 4 hours a night I am really struggling. I tried this out of utter desperation because I had read on here that although it may be a bit hard going, it really works and is torally harmless.

9 year old just sighed and said he doesn't think the baby will forgive me as he couldn't if i did that to him. Hes not sure he can forgive me for doing it to the baby, apparently he didn't think he had a mean mum.

So. My review of sleep training someone who simply cannot rationalise what's happening.. Snake oil bull shit that ruins lives.

If it worked for you whoopie friggin do .. You lucked out .. Implying to parents on their knees with exhaustion that it is a one stop cure all for naughty babies manipulating love and affection is barbaric

Hes finally asleep .. Still making sobbing noises .. Or maybe that's just one of the other kids. Or me.

He's having a stage, can you set up his cot so you can co sleep?

@Calvinlookingforhobbes

Cosleep. You’ll get much more rest. I wish I could help you, OP. You’ll get through this x

See, i find this advice to be just as much misleading bullshit as OP claims the "sleep training is easy and effective" line is.

Cosleeping was fucking hell. I was freezing cold even in my dressing gown, too uncomfortable to sleep because i couldn't roll over, DD chewed on my nipples for 8 straight hours and kicked and hit me constantly because she was such a thrashy sleeper. I was promised by MN that it would solve all my sleep problems - i got less sleep than i had when DD was in her cot and waking every hour! 4 days in i drove the car into the side of our house, with DD in the back, because i couldn't keep my fucking eyez open. Did CC that night, next night DD slept 7-7.

All the "just cosleep" propagandists can fuck right off.

It doesn't sound like something you would normally do because you are doing it at 10 months. You said said he co sleeps normally and feeds often, it will be harder to do with a baby already in this kind of a sleep pattern.

My mum did it with me at 6 weeks and it worked for her but I didn't howl and would go to sleep quickly. I couldn't do it with my two, I lived with inlaws who it would have impacted. I will consider it with my 3rd.

Don't be so hard on yourself, the lack of sleep is horrendous. You are taking care of other kids too and a baby so are tougher than you think and probably managing better too. Much love x

I’m with you OP. Tried everything (except cry it out) nothing worked and it was exhausting trying and ruined a few weeks and was the first time my baby every hit me, he was so sad and angry.

SOME BABIES NEED MORE COMFORT THAN OTHERS. Hate the sleep training smug books full of lies.

I did it with my first and it worked like a charm, she was fine. I had a similar experience as you op with my second baby it just doesn’t work and is cruel. Some babies are just more high needs than others and you have to wait it out.

Don’t feel bad though I tried it too in exhaustion and desperation my son is 5 now and sleeps like a log. He won’t remember any of the sleep training nor will your baby don’t worry.

The baby is too young! We sleep trained DD at 18 month when she had some verbal understanding (or we would both have died of sleep deprivation).

She cried a lot but we sat next to her for the first night. Then move slightly further for the second and got further and further away while she learned to self settle.

Eventually, we were just coming into to shush pat and then standing outside the door.

The first three night were horrendous. But by the end of the last week she was self settling really well. She was never left to cry. But by 18 months old I could tell the difference between what was real distress and temper tantrum.

Good luck with it all. Bad sleepers tests your sanity. Leave it another eight months.

Also, read the previous little sleep blog.

I personally think it's always worth a go as it does work for so many if done appropriately and at the right age. Your baby will have forgotten all about it by the end of the week and now you know not to try it again because it doesn't work for you. No need to be so overly dramatic!

Just wanted to add that this just doesn’t suit some babies. The people whose babies tolerated it will tell you it’s not so bad and that it’s worth a short period of upset, but it’s really just that their baby was ok with it.

I tried with my firstborn at 13 months, and it was just as you describe. We didn’t carry on so long, but after 30-40 minutes I had a sick baby who was frantic and shaking. I hadn’t left the room even, just sat next to the cot. I cuddled him to sleep and continued to.

My second baby was a much better sleeper generally and I know I could have sleep trained him if I wanted to, but I decided not to. I am ever hopeful that we might reach the point where the big one sleeps independently but I also know that eventually he won’t want me at all!

It’s wonderful sleep training. gentle sleep training doesn’t work. You have to tough it out. A few days of hell to a lifetime of sleep. Lovely.

Sleep training should be done by 6 months or it just becomes a nightmare. The younger the baby the easier it is.

@HOkieCOkie

Sleep training should be done by 6 months or it just becomes a nightmare. The younger the baby the easier it is.

Easier for you, maybe. There's a reason it's not recommended until after six months.

@HOkieCOkie

Sleep training should be done by 6 months or it just becomes a nightmare. The younger the baby the easier it is.

...no one recommends any form of CC or CIO for babies under 6m.

OP you are Nbu and you have just suffered through a period of absolute hell. I read this and my heart went out to you. You have done nothing wrong; all you did was try something that you've read time and time again will work. For some it does, for others it's horrific. All babies and parents are different. Your older DC will be fine in the morning after more sleep. And your baby is also fine and wont even remember a second of those 2 hours as soon as he gets a cuddle from you. Please try not to dwell on the night. Move on from it and try something else with baby. You're doing fabulously I think. It's toughz

I think sleep training and leaving-your-baby-to-cry-till-they’re-sick are often interchangeable terms, wrongly so. In my experience controlled crying was very helpful around age of 14 months. Old enough by that point to understanding that mummy’s never far away. Just needed that “nudge” to be able to get to sleep by herself without me having to hold her hand for two hours every evening. Took half an hour the first night of going in to reassure every three minutes, then after that no tears at all and she sleeps very well.

@HOkieCOkie not true at all. There's a good age for it - generally 12-18 months, I'm sure it's still not for all babies, but for ours that window worked well - especially to cut down all the nighttime breastfeeding - they were old enough to understand DH when he took a beaker in and said 'mummy's asleep you can see her later'. One night 2 hours of crying (not hysterical or being sick though), next night 15 mins of crying, third night 2 minute grumble and then on to 12 hour stretches through the night for evermore. That was from waking 2 hourly at 15 months.